tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post2945464697938443170..comments2024-03-25T03:28:44.234-04:00Comments on Just the Vax: Dr. Bob Sears and Fox Friendsjustthevaxhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07081499341191718417noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-53408522936109571752011-01-14T17:34:40.253-05:002011-01-14T17:34:40.253-05:00Respectmyauthority, the pharma shill gambit is lam...Respectmyauthority, the pharma shill gambit is lame and speaks directly to your lack of intellectual capacity to address the issues. See the previous commenter, that is how you do it.<br /><br />That Shaw et al. study is as irrelevant to Gulf War Syndrome as it is for infant vaccines. It's a methodologically-sloppy piece of tosh and the results remain clinically-insignificant, just as his preceding paper with Pietrik et al.Science Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08832263571481452559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-82061885785743686862011-01-14T17:30:17.809-05:002011-01-14T17:30:17.809-05:00-The Dr. Thorsen stuff is similar to the Dr. Wakef...<i>-The Dr. Thorsen stuff is similar to the Dr. Wakefield stuff: take into account who is saying what, why, and the background of the story, and the PR jabs more or less just fade away as politics.</i><br /><br />I disagree. There is so much known and documented regarding Wakefield's ethical lapses and his intentional falsification of data (not just medical histories but PCR results) and very little known about what Dr. Thorsen actually did. Wakefield, with media help created a worldwide scare, Thorsen allegedly bilked Aarhus and/or the CDC out of ~2 mil dollars. I would like to know what happened and if he is guilty, should be hung out to dry. But the 2 aren't comparable as far as the public health damage that has occurred.<br /><br /><i>-The lack of scientific validity is still at issue. The CDC is largely not responsible in this regard. The media are largely not responsible in this regard. Physicians are largely not responsible in this regard. Pharmaceutical companies are largely not responsible in this regard.</i><br /><br />Again, I disagree. While our knowledge is not perfect and is expanding, I would place the onus upon you (general you too) to be more specific and outline what data should be generated that would satisfy you.<br /><br /><i>...again, more red herring. Right and wrong exists on both sides of the issue, "false conjectures" and "anti-intellectual movements" are born of every interest. 'Saying it' doesn't make it so; and isn't that your point too, really?</i><br /><br />No, I would say that was pretty en pointe. You are trying to create a false balance, except in a different direction. Is there criticism of public health policy regarding vaccines? Yes, but again, it's rather mundane than the outright false conjectures created by 'safer vaccine proponents', all in the name of personal validation, but mostly, for profit.Science Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08832263571481452559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-48076794555302328132011-01-14T17:29:31.992-05:002011-01-14T17:29:31.992-05:00-Criticizing someone based on an association is a ...<i>-Criticizing someone based on an association is a red herring.</i><br /><br />No, often it isn't but I evaluate on a case-by-case basis. But if someone is member of, say, the Klu Klux Klan, do you honestly believe they are there just for the tea and biscuits? I'd like to see how consistent you are when evaluating an investigator who has only received a piece of pizza and a coffee mug from a pharma rep.<br /><br /><i>-Studies published and cited are not necessarily representative of good science. i.e. lack basic scientific methodology required of even a grade-school science project. For further example, I pulled one citation of your list: "New Hib with all infant vaccines:" A study with no control group. Really. All three of the research groups had a combination vaccine sequence applied. Not one of the research groups stood as a control to study effects, if any, of one vaccine in isolation as a comparison group to a group receiving more than one vaccine. And this is just one cursory glance at one study.</i><br /><br />That highlights the impossibility for performing a 'vaccinated vs. unvaccinated' study. Vaccines are the standard of care, like it or not and to with hold them is unethical. The point of the study was to evaluate the current suite of vaccines with a new Hib vaccine. The effects of the established suite of vaccines is well-known so it isn't difficult to determine if addition of a Hib vaccine is contributing to more or less reactions. Besides, the assertion by Dr. Bob (more accurately by AC and BS concurred) was that no studies exist testing multiple vaccines together and a quick PubMed search, easily refuted that. There are more studies if you like.<br /><br /><i>-True, injecting vaccines does not bypass the immune system completely; the effect(s) of vaccines is not solely determined by the effects of the antigens, however, and this is likely to what Dr. Bob was referring. Preservative metals/adjuvants/squalene...<b>natural vectors or not, not something with which the body can deal as effectively if injected vs. ingested.</b></i><br /><br />Oh do you speak for Dr. Bob now? Perhaps he should learn the proper nomenclature if he's going to appoint himself a 'vaccine expert' don't you think? He was quite clear about his statement and he was very wrong.<br /><br />Emphasis added. That is a rather empty or wrong statement pending your clarification. Both humoral and cellular immune arms respond very effectively to nearly all vaccinations. In fact the humoral immune response to polysaccharide vaccines in infants is superior to that of the wild-type diseases. Do you dispute the dramatic plunge in measles and rubella disease? How can that be an ineffective vaccine response?<br /><br />Cont...Science Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08832263571481452559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-88331163911744545062011-01-13T23:47:07.636-05:002011-01-13T23:47:07.636-05:00The Pharmy Army strikes again!The Pharmy Army strikes again!RespectMyAuthorityhttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19740540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-46880799715371141092011-01-10T22:47:17.465-05:002011-01-10T22:47:17.465-05:00-Criticizing someone based on an association is a ...-Criticizing someone based on an association is a red herring.<br />-Studies published and cited are not necessarily representative of good science. i.e. lack basic scientific methodology required of even a grade-school science project. For further example, I pulled one citation of your list: "New Hib with all infant vaccines:" A study with no control group. Really. All three of the research groups had a combination vaccine sequence applied. Not one of the research groups stood as a control to study effects, if any, of one vaccine in isolation as a comparison group to a group receiving more than one vaccine. And this is just one cursory glance at one study.<br />-True, injecting vaccines does not bypass the immune system completely; the effect(s) of vaccines is not solely determined by the effects of the antigens, however, and this is likely to what Dr. Bob was referring. Preservative metals/adjuvants/squalene...natural vectors or not, not something with which the body can deal as effectively if injected vs. ingested. <br />-The Dr. Thorsen stuff is similar to the Dr. Wakefield stuff: take into account who is saying what, why, and the background of the story, and the PR jabs more or less just fade away as politics. <br />-The lack of scientific validity is still at issue. The CDC is largely not responsible in this regard. The media are largely not responsible in this regard. Physicians are largely not responsible in this regard. Pharmaceutical companies are largely not responsible in this regard.<br /> "There are concerns and criticisms regarding the CDC vaccine schedule, but they are rather mundane when compared to the misleading and downright false conjectures that self-proclaimed experts would have us believe. There seems to be an anti-intellectual movement afoot but with the taskmasters absurdly co-opting the esteem of education and credentials to propagate it."<br /><br />...again, more red herring. Right and wrong exists on both sides of the issue, "false conjectures" and "anti-intellectual movements" are born of every interest. 'Saying it' doesn't make it so; and isn't that your point too, really?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-49142280782034214722010-12-03T19:47:48.813-05:002010-12-03T19:47:48.813-05:00Thank you so much!Thank you so much!Statgirl Tells The Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16645482865225283490noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-29377122052473774632010-10-23T09:49:41.367-04:002010-10-23T09:49:41.367-04:00Oh Science Mom, this American mother is curious to...<i>Oh Science Mom, this American mother is curious to what you think about progressive countries like Finland banning the flu vaccination for kids under 18. I hear France is likely going to do that, too. You can freely google the information, as it is all over the internet, no need to cite references.</i><br /><br />What is your criteria for 'progressive'? Finland banned H1N1 vaccination as a knee-jerk reaction to the reports of an association with narcolepsy. What exactly is your point?Science Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08832263571481452559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-79053892681369286882010-10-23T09:29:23.101-04:002010-10-23T09:29:23.101-04:00Anonymous, how much are your pro-disease, alt-med ...Anonymous, how much are your pro-disease, alt-med companies and organisations paying you to post here?<br /><br />When you pull the pharma-shill gambit, you have obviously lost.Science Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08832263571481452559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-83949984342568165402010-10-22T13:46:17.932-04:002010-10-22T13:46:17.932-04:00I gotta copy this over to http://factsnotfantasy.c...I gotta copy this over to http://factsnotfantasy.com it's so good!<br /><br />@Anonymous, lies repeated often enough do not become truth, no matter what Fox says...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12565621013251370015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-21309751103937852362010-10-20T18:24:50.164-04:002010-10-20T18:24:50.164-04:00Ah, it is the old, boring and totally worthless Ph...Ah, it is the old, boring and totally worthless <a href="http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3212" rel="nofollow">Pharma Shill Gambit</a>!<br /><br />Why not something original and informative, like perhaps the news article about Finland and France suspending the vaccine. Because I am looking, and I cannot find it (except for one less than credible news site).Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14428361191787397415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-51578586847599367112010-10-20T06:59:21.475-04:002010-10-20T06:59:21.475-04:00Curious to as how much the pharm companies are pay...Curious to as how much the pharm companies are paying you?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-50017902817354943452010-10-20T06:57:47.634-04:002010-10-20T06:57:47.634-04:00Oh Science Mom, this American mother is curious t...Oh Science Mom, this American mother is curious to what you think about progressive countries like Finland banning the flu vaccination for kids under 18. I hear France is likely going to do that, too. You can freely google the information, as it is all over the internet, no need to cite references.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-54791497630357356222010-10-14T01:32:43.148-04:002010-10-14T01:32:43.148-04:00Thanks for the list of references and kudos to Eli...Thanks for the list of references and kudos to Elise for writing to the morning show in question. I think the final comments of this post are wrong, though. I think Sears could continue to get attention and promote himself as a celebrity. For example, he managed to get himself and his "Autism Book" (which promotes biomed autism treatments) mentioned in a seemingly nice, noncontroversial article from April 2010:<br /><br />http://articles.cnn.com/2010-04-02/health/autism.middle.school_1_autism-spectrum-high-functioning-middle-school?_s=PM:HEALTHDelphininoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-40186642553772252052010-10-13T21:02:54.510-04:002010-10-13T21:02:54.510-04:00Anonymous, please feel free to critique anything t...Anonymous, please feel free to critique anything that I have countered Dr. Bob's information with. You know, I can call myself 'princess' but that doesn't make it so.Science Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08832263571481452559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-49216202185904767062010-10-13T18:40:15.859-04:002010-10-13T18:40:15.859-04:00Funny, Science Mom; I have serious concerns about ...Funny, Science Mom; I have serious concerns about what the public has been and is continuing to be told about the safety of vaccines, and yet I don't consider myself a member of "the anti-science brigade". You, and the other folks on this site, apparently do. So I guess this isn't my place to air my concerns. Sad stuff, this polarization going on in this matter. It's too serious to be left to the close-minded.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-32742435995960498592010-10-13T14:20:42.532-04:002010-10-13T14:20:42.532-04:00Thanks!Thanks!kittywhumpushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12641608960636796307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-6753718681786810532010-10-12T16:04:25.350-04:002010-10-12T16:04:25.350-04:00Excellent piece of work. Let the hand-waving begi...Excellent piece of work. Let the hand-waving begin 3...2...1...Tezcatlipocahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05654888080078039341noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-32389457944903460692010-10-12T15:35:20.370-04:002010-10-12T15:35:20.370-04:00Nicely done! It is great to see such a clear post ...Nicely done! It is great to see such a clear post about the Fox BS :)<br />I have always wondered, with the 'too many too soon' chant, which vaccines these parents would choose over what? Looking at your newborn, how does one decide "gee, I sure don't want my little angel to get polio...but pertusis? heck! why not! that one sounds fun!"....Angelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05457516405821614159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-25535206707910336752010-10-12T14:03:37.144-04:002010-10-12T14:03:37.144-04:00Whoa, Shannon's blogpost comments has become a...Whoa, Shannon's blogpost comments has become a hornet's nest. Although the pro-science folks are, naturally, prevailing.<br /><br />If Fox News are the only ones to host such nonsense, I'd say that that's a pretty clear sign of where the anti-vax, anti-science brigade has gone.Science Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08832263571481452559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-3616265699995854992010-10-12T13:15:02.058-04:002010-10-12T13:15:02.058-04:00Incredible deconstruction, just incredible.Incredible deconstruction, just incredible.Arnold T Pantsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-57465000769040467372010-10-12T13:10:15.867-04:002010-10-12T13:10:15.867-04:00I saw the segment too and I fired off an email to ...I saw the segment too and I fired off an email to the idiots at Fox and Friends. Never heard back of course. Great article.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-90449068283578121692010-10-12T12:39:35.253-04:002010-10-12T12:39:35.253-04:00Thanks for doing the hard work. I saw the Dr. Bob...Thanks for doing the hard work. I saw the Dr. Bob segment & just got too grumpy to tackle it. I did, however link to it from the comments on Shannon Rosa's piece Why My Child With Autism Is Fully Vaccinated<br /><br /><a href="http://shotofprevention.com/2010/10/04/why-my-child-with-autism-is-fully-vaccinated/" rel="nofollow">http://shotofprevention.com/2010/10/04/why-my-child-with-autism-is-fully-vaccinated/</a>Liz Ditzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03455722013211350247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-16206454488397852792010-10-12T12:26:48.864-04:002010-10-12T12:26:48.864-04:00Great deconstruction. Dr. Manny also went off the ...Great deconstruction. Dr. Manny also went off the deep end the other morning on Fox... I think someone is up to something.Renhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02165486823815850422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-13851818794633786822010-10-12T07:57:30.229-04:002010-10-12T07:57:30.229-04:00Great post there Science Mom, it's pretty sad ...Great post there Science Mom, it's pretty sad that there are still those in the media willing to climb on the autism.vaccines bandwagon, despite the fact that the wheels fell off that particular vehicle a long time ago.<br /><br />Perhaps this is why they call it "faux news".Paul Brownehttp://www.speakingofresearch.com/news/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-45053314722981530492010-10-11T19:51:03.945-04:002010-10-11T19:51:03.945-04:00Excellent post. Now the only thing the anti-vax mo...Excellent post. Now the only thing the anti-vax movement is missing is going on Glenn Beck's show.Kim Wombleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15492455180502821052noreply@blogger.com