tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post7985541204869524402..comments2024-03-25T03:28:44.234-04:00Comments on Just the Vax: An Open Letter to the Biomeddlersjustthevaxhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07081499341191718417noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-79182270403579707582012-06-18T14:10:34.886-04:002012-06-18T14:10:34.886-04:00(commenting on an ancient laptop)
Orac has featur...(commenting on an ancient laptop)<br /><br />Orac has featured Todd's Ho-Po article on today's RI blog:<br /><br />http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/06/18/mms-apologists-strike-back/<br /><br />Orac has acknowledged the comments made by Science Mom, Autismum and me and our calling out these parents for the child abusers they are.liladynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-7774993534879772692012-06-16T12:25:35.895-04:002012-06-16T12:25:35.895-04:00Todd Drezner’s blog on MMS treatment is still goin...Todd Drezner’s blog on MMS treatment is still going strong:<br /><br />http://www.huffingtonpost.com/todd-drezner/autism-cure_b_1588498.html<br /><br />I’ve replied to Ann Dachel and now a second time to Julie Obradovic who posted again to “explain” how she knew nothing of the treatment, continues to support the Quackfest, and (yet) felt that the science blogger was a big meanie.<br /><br />There are no comments in support of MMS, many comments that condemn MMS and the parents who *treat* their children with bleach. Some of the comments also discuss the incestuous relationship between Generation Rescue, Autism One and AoA and their continued support of disgraced doctors, their quack treatments, AoA’s defamatory articles and other tactics.liladynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-39896218997536551142012-06-15T08:44:49.584-04:002012-06-15T08:44:49.584-04:00Thank you for the post, Todd.Thank you for the post, Todd.Catherinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580939201909356691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-20018947214763672432012-06-14T17:07:12.826-04:002012-06-14T17:07:12.826-04:00Todd, I was the first person to comment there...an...Todd, I was the first person to comment there...and I posted again a half-hour ago about my experiences with my developmentally disabled son. Some "editing" going on there?<br /><br />Four days after Kim Stagliano shut down the thread at AoA, with a dumb disclaimer about providing a *forum* to discuss biomedical *treatments*, comes this...<br /><br />http://www.ageofautism.com/2012/06/autism-one-is-there-a-doctor-in-the-house.html<br /><br />"MMS sounds wonderful! Its really nice to hear that the parasites are visible to even us parents who pharma and the shill scientists can't dismiss so easily now!!!<br /><br />Since we know the worms and can see them though we must have studied them. Do we have more information from the research? Where do they come from? Personally I've always been more of a fan of prevention and can't wait to see where the research goes from for here so we don't lose another generation of children to becoming souless train wrecks. Has any of the autistic research started investigation into these worms so we know what they are?<br /><br />Posted by: Dave | June 14, 2012 at 12:58 AM"liladynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-57213922241917658422012-06-14T16:43:38.710-04:002012-06-14T16:43:38.710-04:00It took the editors almost three days to get the p...It took the editors almost three days to get the post up. They can get a little backlogged over there.Todd Dreznernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-42851545293888506522012-06-14T16:30:40.417-04:002012-06-14T16:30:40.417-04:00I've already posted twice Todd. My posts are ...I've already posted twice Todd. My posts are stuck in "moderation"...one of them "stuck" for hours.liladynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-54783219700250258742012-06-14T16:18:27.302-04:002012-06-14T16:18:27.302-04:00Here's my Huffington Post piece on the issue f...Here's my Huffington Post piece on the issue for anyone who's interested:<br /><br />http://www.huffingtonpost.com/todd-drezner/autism-cure_b_1588498.htmlTodd Dreznernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-46325215344151641842012-06-13T18:37:48.347-04:002012-06-13T18:37:48.347-04:00Roger, we will one day have to sort out the umbrel...Roger, we will one day have to sort out the umbrella term 'autism' or 'PPD'. As things stand, we teach that it can be caused by multiple known factors (anoxic birth injury, traumatic brain injury, genetics, meningitis etc), but there isn't any reason to regard these things as the same disease, but rather they are a group of conditions with similar symptoms. All autism involves regression and loss of acquired skills, but all illnesses, including fevers, make normal children temporarily regress. I don't think the concept that there is regressive autism versus some other kind will survive. I would suggest that the bulk of the "epidemic" - by which I mean the increased incidence caused by broader diagnostic criteria and greater awareness among the diagnosers as well as parents - will be genetically caused, and that we will find there are numerous genes involved and definitely not just one mutation. I know this suggestion increases the burden of guilt felt by parents who want to know what to blame for their child's differences (first hand, my son is autistic and it plainly comes from my side of the family), but there is little point in hiding from the truth to save our finer feelings (see why it's my side of the family....?) Intensive, continuous behavioural modification is the only way to change the outcome, and it does work. It is hard work, and it is important not to look at it as being a way to change the child you have for the one you would like to have, but simply equipping the child you have to better survive in the world, and perhaps even be independent. And that is the job of any parent, right?Lancelot Gobbohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12940619023732432010noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-27333888527894487412012-06-12T16:35:01.616-04:002012-06-12T16:35:01.616-04:00@ Michael Simpson...Over at the Respectful Insolen...@ Michael Simpson...Over at the Respectful Insolence blog, the subject of Munchausen-By-Proxy Syndrome and its possible manifestation in these parent/abusers has been explored:<br /><br />http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9924974 <br /><br />Here's my take on MBPS <br /><br />"Can you say Munchausen-By-Proxy-Syndrome, Denice? Its odd that much discussion is taking place about the changes in the DSM 5 diagnostic criteria pertaining to autism. (Truly outside of my area of expertise), but perhaps there should be a new subgroup under Munchausen-By-Proxy to describe the abuse of a developmentally disabled child.<br /><br />I would “propose” that this new subgroup is marked by parents who are immature, who haven’t accepted their child’s differences from the “norm”, who have a preexisting degree of narcissism, who are angry and prone to histrionics, who view themselves as martyrs, who have a distrust of science, who are in denial and are publicity seekers, who need constant reinforcement from their “group” and…who seize an opportunity to “capitalize on their child” by pimping their stories on anti-vaccine websites."liladynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-67734511111657710242012-06-12T15:33:13.063-04:002012-06-12T15:33:13.063-04:00Hear hear. They are abusing their kids under the g...Hear hear. They are abusing their kids under the guise of medicine (really, fake crap medicine).<br /><br />Am I the only one who thinks that autism doesn't need to be cured?Michael Simpsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03217061520576852824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-40178372435212195562012-06-12T15:31:20.478-04:002012-06-12T15:31:20.478-04:00I used to think that parents of autistic children ...I used to think that parents of autistic children who were anti-vax or pro-altmed were just desperate for an answer and "cure." <br /><br />I hate to become a cynic, but every time I read articles like this, I begin to wonder if some of these parents just have some form of Münchausen syndrome by proxy. They want to glorify their children's "disease."<br /><br />I wonder if Temple Grandin thinks she has a disease? And her mother honored her by giving her everything to succeed (eventually getting a Ph.D.), never once trying to "cure" her (or at least not publicly doing so).<br /><br />Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. But maybe I'm a cynic for a reason.Michael Simpsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03217061520576852824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-63585155812540042572012-06-12T12:56:05.610-04:002012-06-12T12:56:05.610-04:00@ Todd Drezner:
"...But that is a differen...@ Todd Drezner: <br /><br />"...But that is a different question than whether it's useful to tell parents that they don't love their children. If your goal is to get parents to reconsider their actions, they won't do it if you tell them they don't love their kids."<br /><br />The parents who are abusing their kids Todd, know they are inflicting pain and discomfort on their children. Just like all abusive parents, the abuse takes place behind closed doors, within the home. For every parent/abuser there are "enablers"; a spouse, a close friend or relative...or a neighbor, who are just as culpable. <br /><br />I don't recall stating that the parent/abusers didn't love them, Todd. Although it is abundantly clear that they have a warped set of values and show a twisted type of love. And Todd, I don't expect that they will come over to the side of reason and stop the abuse. The only thing that will stop them is if they are a subject of a child abuse complaint, by an "enabler" who decided to do the right thing. <br /><br />"There's certainly an argument to be made that parents who subject their kids to MMS don't love them, but so what?"<br /><br />So what? Todd. Is that any justification for torturing the kid?<br /><br />"Would MMS be any better if we knew for a certainty that all parents who used it loved their children? No. It would be just as bad."<br /><br />Parent/child abusers frequently state that they love their child...or were misguided...or were the product of an abusing home. They will never admit that their supposed "love" is a mixture of anger and sadism. <br /><br />On a more positive note Todd, I'm glad that you will be blogging on the Ho-Po. I emailed the Ho-Po on Saturday, requesting that they investigate MMS and the autism "treatment", and I linked to Dr. Gorski's blog at Science Based Medicine.liladynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-46513721480547845962012-06-12T10:47:14.060-04:002012-06-12T10:47:14.060-04:00Thanks for stopping by Mr. Drezner since I'm n...Thanks for stopping by Mr. Drezner since I'm not on FB. My post is admittedly part self-indulgent venting and part eliciting a change. I'll get to the latter in a moment. This isn't just about MMS; that was just the tipping point. <br /><br />This is a small but sizable community who no longer see the child in front of them. They really do believe that "their" child is trapped or stolen from them and that is the idea they are in love with, not their autist born to them and born that way. Love is not complicated for me and I'm really tired of seeing it warped to suit nefarious purposes. You can't love your child and be able to hold them down for the endless blood draws, chelation, HBOT chambers, pharmaceuticals and tell them they're damaged from vaccines and "toxins".<br /><br />We have stuck to the facts and still do and even though you see a couple (out of thousands?) of comments on AoA disparaging MMS, there are still thousands more who either use it or will never denigrate another's choice of quackery because they themselves use other quackery and don't want to be criticised.<br /><br />They are completely immune to reason, evidence, logic and humanity. They already hate “us”; we’re the enemy remember? We’re “pharma whores”, “shills” and “vaccine-pushers”. These are people who intentionally isolate themselves from criticism and dissent, people who initiate lawsuits against their critics, threaten people’s employment, threaten people’s safety and the safety of their children and who stalk their critics. This is not a nice and rational group of people. Education doesn’t work, compassion doesn’t work so what do you suggest? They need a wake-up call, if for nothing than yes, to put them on the defensive. Because their repugnant and defiant defence of abuse may prevent others from going down the same road. No, nothing "we" do will ever bring them further to "our side".<br /><br />Perhaps the worst abusers won't change but perhaps a previously reluctant relative will step in, perhaps some of the politicians who are sympathetic to their "cause" will see them for who they really are and back away. Maybe this will start the change in the perception of others who are in a position to stop this gruesome experimentation on special needs children like the AMA and AAP and FDA.<br /><br />It's simple for me, you just don't do these horrible things to your children day after day if you did truly love them.Science Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08832263571481452559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-39365856872245705052012-06-12T09:58:04.040-04:002012-06-12T09:58:04.040-04:00Lilady, I commented on Liz's Facebook page. I...Lilady, I commented on Liz's Facebook page. I'm certainly not arguing that we should be silent about the horros of MMS. On the contrary, I'll shortly have a blog post up at Huffington Post that goes into MMS in detail.<br /><br />But that is a different question than whether it's useful to tell parents that they don't love their children. If your goal is to get parents to reconsider their actions, they won't do it if you tell them they don't love their kids.<br /><br />There's certainly an argument to be made that parents who subject their kids to MMS don't love them, but so what? Would MMS be any better if we knew for a certainty that all parents who used it loved their children? No. It would be just as bad.<br /><br />In other words, stick to the facts about MMS. They are appalling enough as it is, and even some commenters at the Age of Autism post about it have called out MMS as quackery. But they won't come any further to our side if you tell them they don't love their children.<br /><br />The ultimate question is, are you just venting or do you really want to try to make people change?Todd Dreznernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-22470383126135757032012-06-12T09:43:53.616-04:002012-06-12T09:43:53.616-04:00Thank you, Science Mom, for so eloquently stating ...Thank you, Science Mom, for so eloquently stating what I and I know many others have been feeling for some time. I popped a link her in reply to MMS apologists over at my place when I just couldn't deal with it last night. It is well past time we said it like it is and said how we really feel. Once again, thanks.Autismumhttp://autismum.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-62962880688273877382012-06-12T08:50:05.479-04:002012-06-12T08:50:05.479-04:00The parallels with the institutionalised indoctrin...The parallels with the institutionalised indoctrination and physical abuse delivered by the Church are uncanny.<br /><br />All for the good of the child, of course, and all done with a perfectly clear conscience. For these people, it is a religion too.dtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-21087326089746400302012-06-11T21:03:51.891-04:002012-06-11T21:03:51.891-04:00You really have no idea how angry it makes a paren...<i>You really have no idea how angry it makes a parent of a severely disabled child,let alone an adult with a more severe form of autism,to have to listen to some high functioning person,who has no medical issues,and is able to work,sit and spout off about how autism is a neurological difference that makes their life better.</i><br /><br />Your indignation is noted Roger except it's a strawman. Can you find anywhere in my post where I stated any such thing? I'm aware that there is a small segment of neurodiversity people who adhere to that ideology but I'm not one of them. I'm also aware that there are many valid co-morbidities that autists have or "subtypes" of autism with accompanying pathologies that need to be thoroughly researched and treatments developed. That is not what this post is about; it's about the imaginary illnesses and abusive "cures" that parents inflict on their children in the name of love. Do you really want to argue that dehumanising special needs children and foisting bogus medical diagnoses and treatments on them is okey dokey?Science Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08832263571481452559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-21630671649189230522012-06-11T20:37:05.576-04:002012-06-11T20:37:05.576-04:00Roger...I find your comments to be off-topic.
T...Roger...I find your comments to be off-topic. <br /><br />This thread is about parents inflicting painful, invasive bogus oral and rectal treatments on their children, all in an effort "to cure them". This thread is not about neurodiversity within the autism spectrum.<br /><br />You have shared your physical problems and the chronic and acute pain that you have experienced due to your bowel problems. Why then, have you chosen to not post your opinion about parents who cause their children to have agonizing bowel pain and upper GI pain, because of their "treatments" to cure their child's autism?liladynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-59466267530818614162012-06-11T19:58:25.791-04:002012-06-11T19:58:25.791-04:00I also "don't do Facebook", Liz.
...I also "don't do Facebook", Liz. <br /><br />Someone commented on your Facebook page stating misgivings with Science Mom's public stance. I strongly disagree with that poster.<br /><br />Keeping the "dirty little secret" and our reluctance to "air the dirty laundry in public", only enables child abusers to continue their nefarious abuse of their children.<br /><br />Years ago, I met the social worker who had the key and opened the doors of the locked wards at the Willowbrook State School. The inhumane conditions that prevailed there, were revealed by a TV crew. I've read the complete Federal Court transcripts and the entire Willowbrook Consent Decree where it was revealed that young children were deliberately infected with the hepatitis B virus...all part of a medical experiment to develop a vaccine.<br /><br />I also attended the hearings in Federal Court...and my husband testified on behalf of the Suffolk Developmental Center plaintiffs, to enable developmentally disabled children and adults to leave the locked warehouse for a home in the community.<br /><br />Child neglect and abuse is child neglect and abuse...whether it is inflicted by staff in large institutions, by caregivers...or by parents.liladynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-59246536522107148742012-06-11T19:18:33.542-04:002012-06-11T19:18:33.542-04:00I posted it for you, Science Mom.I posted it for you, Science Mom.Liz Ditzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03455722013211350247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-82811763759726399272012-06-11T18:08:17.000-04:002012-06-11T18:08:17.000-04:00I completely agree. I am one of the "soulles...I completely agree. I am one of the "soulless" with a developmental disability. And you know what? I'm amazing. These people have abandoned loving their children in favor of the endless search for something that will make their children into something they aren't.What Pale Blue Dot?https://www.blogger.com/profile/18389959936049538191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-58106600147082957222012-06-11T16:24:18.978-04:002012-06-11T16:24:18.978-04:00Oh sorry Liz, I don't go on FB otherwise I wou...Oh sorry Liz, I don't go on FB otherwise I would have posted my response directly there.Science Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08832263571481452559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-89233379018382480602012-06-11T16:09:51.998-04:002012-06-11T16:09:51.998-04:00Considering that the Revolting Moms and AoA'er...Considering that the Revolting Moms and AoA'ers reside in an echo chamber, not allowing any dissenting comments and not allowing any perceived "enemies" at their quackfest, this is as good a venue as any to vent. Education isn't working. Politeness? For those who threaten people's employment and personal safety and children? Not going to work either. I'm calling them out in hopes that maybe a relative, neighbour, teacher or therapist will take action. This is abuse, plain and simple and the last thing I'm worried about are some abusers' feelings.Science Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08832263571481452559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-69320992762803286862012-06-11T15:51:10.811-04:002012-06-11T15:51:10.811-04:00I put a link up on my facebook page. At least on...I put a link up on my <a href="http://www.facebook.com/liz.ditz/posts/338927039510186?notif_t=share_comment" rel="nofollow">facebook page</a>. At least one comment there.Liz Ditzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03455722013211350247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3406721589945384372.post-5923782211379882092012-06-11T15:45:09.835-04:002012-06-11T15:45:09.835-04:00Amen, Science Mom...for your calling out the abusi...Amen, Science Mom...for your calling out the abusing parents. <br /><br />I have a profound sense of disbelief and disgust with this latest biomedical treatment "to cure autism". I am saddened that the abusers are mostly the mothers of these innocent children and yet the fathers stand by while their children are subjected to these horrendous acts.<br /><br />I've seen both of my children in pain...tears well up just remembering those awful times. I lack the vocabulary to describe my outrage of the dehumanizing violation of these youngsters, by their parents.<br /><br />Time is long since past, when we should have taken a public stand by blogging and re-posting the abusers verbatim posts about the "treatments" they are inflicting on their children. I will continue to post each and every statement that the abusers make about these treatments.liladynoreply@blogger.com