Anyone following anti-vaccine groups like Age of Autism (AoA), Generation Rescue and SafeMinds (they are really comprised of the same group of core members who have set up multiple fronts in order to appear more numerous than they actually are) will know Jake Crosby, wonder boy "cub reporter" for AoA.
Last November (2012) there was a congressional hearing lead up by California Republican representative Darrell Issa. Autism parent Brian Hooker revealed a series of meetings he had with rep. Issa and other congress critters. Mr. Hooker was accompanied by Andrew Wakefield who wined and dined members of the oversight committee that would ultimately hear testimonies from anti-vaccine groups on the topic of autism. The testimonies and speakers at this hearing has made Jake Crosby very angry and has posted his diatribe on none other than the Bolen Report.
The Cliff Notes version is that Jake has decided to slam his comrades-in-arms, particularly SafeMinds, because they chose to try and appear sane and rational (as sane and rational as one can be given that they believe vaccines cause autism) in front of the congressional committee by refusing to let Jake present his contorted conspiracy theories and instead letting Mark Blaxill speak and trimming Brian Hooker's screed down. Jake's little hissy fit is a thing of beauty to read as it illustrates the mindset of anti-vaxxers and their slimy tactics to weasel their way onto a platform of legitimacy.
ETA: Since Liz Ditz was so kind to take screen shots of Jake's exposition, I'm including the link to her page here. Jake recently "spoke" at the IACC public comment session (for a limited value of "spoke" since he launched into a predictably atrocious tirade) so to see him in action, the video is available here (138 minute mark).
Wow...just wow. Not only did Jake slam Safe Minds, he went after Mark Blaxill, who now realizes that Jake is a loose cannon and not a *team player*.
ReplyDeleteI've been a wee bit *fixated* on that Congressional Hearing, as soon as I read on AoA how the Geiers introduced Brian Hooker to Andrew Wakefield for the purpose of influencing the agenda to introduce "vaccine injuries" as causing autism.
Poor Jake, he's thrown his lot in with every disgraced and de-licensed doctor. Pathetic.
Mark Blaxill told Jake:
ReplyDelete"Your interpretation of events is so radically wrong and the key facts you use to support your interpretation are incorrect in so many key respects, it's not worth arguing with you anymore. So I won't. It's low quality work, that's all I'll say, and you should set a higher standard for yourself."
That's a departure for AoA. Why suddenly reject low quality work with radically wrong interpretations based on incorrect facts?
Double standard--Mark Blaxill's own work falls exactly under the above description.
I know Anon; I laughed heartily at the same thing. Oh the hypocrisy burns.
ReplyDeleteI quoted you and posted screenshots of Crosby's diatribe:
ReplyDeletehttp://lizditz.typepad.com/i_speak_of_dreams/2013/01/a-disturbance-in-the-anti-vaccine-force-crosby-falls-out-with-redwood-safeminds-blaxill.html"
Thanks Liz, thorough as usual.
DeleteThe fact that these groups are purposefully restraining themselves is at once not surprising and also stunning.
ReplyDeleteNot surprising as in many people think that "at home" they are worse than they present themselves in public.
But stunning in that they think they have been a good smoke screen.
In public:
"Don't be scared of us. We only turn up the denialism and attacks to 9"
At home:
"Are you sure this only goes to 11?"
I suspect that what Jake has actually thrown under the bus is any chance he might have had left to do something legitimate with that degree. AoA is embarrassing, but the Bolen Report is career suicide.
ReplyDeleteAs if...Jake ever had a chance for that nascent career.
ReplyDelete"He may be awarded a MPH-Epidemiology degree...but he will never be an epidemiologist"
-lilady
Jake sold his personal integrity for a low price. He betrayed the trust of many for what? Because he didn't get to testify in front of a hearing? Because someone else might have been lost a political battle to testify?
ReplyDeleteWhy didn't he quit? Why didn't he quit last year before or right after the hearing? Why wait months and complain?
Hooker was wrong. Jake didn't show courage.
Consider Alison Singer, who walked away from a high paying job over principle. And has never leaked information from her former employer. That's guts.
Jake has personal integrity? Nah.
ReplyDeleteHe's insanely jealous that Ari Ne'eman was appointed to the IACC. He's getting his just desserts from the gang at AoA who praised him for his stalking behaviors and his libelous defamatory posts directed at respected scientists, researchers, doctors, science bloggers and journalists.
Did anyone click on any of Jake's links?
ReplyDeleteJake writes, "I then disproved Blaxill’s claim by quoting the old, archived web pages of Dr. Thorsen’s NANEA group directly, listing him as “Principle Investigator.” "
Well, according to Jake's Wayback Machine Page, it's true. Poul Thorsen is listed as Team Leader. For the Ceberbral Palsy!
Sorry, Jake, that's not Autism.
Chemmomo
Oops. For the Cerebral Palsy ^Team.
DeleteI should have hit Preview, since there actually actually one here!
Chemmomo
And with that I will quit while I am behind.
DeletePrecious isn't Chemmomo. Jake is not one to ever let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy. Katie Wright is up there with him should anyone care to stomach any of her tantrums.
DeleteI just watched the video. Wow. Just wow.
ReplyDeleteIf I was his mother I would be appalled and calling for a referral to a mental health professional (which I have done for my own son when he stopped doing homework in 10th grade for various reasons, including being bullied and claiming that homework was against his religion).
Though I suspect Young Master Jake is proud of him, and cheering all of his efforts.
Wow. Just wow.
ReplyDelete^ that!
Oops, left out a word or two: Though I suspect the mother of Young Master Jake...
DeleteAnd look who's coming to the 2013 Autism One Conference.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.autismone.org/content/autismone-generation-rescue-conference-2013
"BREAKING NEWS! Congressman Dan Burton, Congressman Dave Weldon, MD, and Congressman Bill Posey are coming to the conference, Friday, May 24th.
The Congressional Panel will present beginning at 10:00 am for an hour followed by Q&A for 30 minutes. Stay tuned. More details coming soon."
Yup, just as I stated previously. That Congressional Hearing was a sham and Jake provided additional information how those Committee members changed the agenda after Andy Wakefield got to them.
I guess the standing congress critters don't care much for their reputations. That and they have probably been hoodwinked into believing that the anti-vaxx contingent is more representative than it actually is by forming numerous organisations with a revolving core of members.
ReplyDeleteHere, for your reading enjoyment, a statement from SafeMinds about Jake's rant on Tim Bolen's blog:
ReplyDeletehttp://safeminds.org/news/response-to-false-allegations.html
I was just reading a comment on AoA (by a person who didn’t sign their real name, how ironic), in which he said this: “I too believe in airing everything , secrecy is what this whole vaccine autism holocaust is all about.”
ReplyDeleteInteresting. I pretty much stopped reading AoA a few years ago when I realized that Kim Stagliano is as willing to censor the unpopular and inconvenient (I do so love to use the words of Wakefield regarding this, the irony is so sweet) as anyone within the CDC or pharma. I certainly no longer try to comment on her site. Not since I attempted to post a simple fact a few years ago – that Walgreens still administers flu shots with 25 mcg of thimerosal – and my post was censored. Kim had been working with Autism Speaks, you see, in trying to pass legislation in Connecticut that would give tax breaks to companies like Walgreens if they would hire those on the spectrum. High functioning individuals, like her daughters. When I wrote to Kim, telling her how upset it made me that she would censor my post especially given all of the censorship I’d experienced in the past (especially from the ‘support’ organizations and most especially from Autism Speaks), and pleading with her to reconsider, I was told only that she had no intention of embarrassing her new friend at Autism Speaks and would not post my comment.
I guess Ms. Stagliano’s idea of a just world is one in which the truth takes a backseat to McJobs for her children.
When I went to a book signing of hers a year or so ago, with a sign explaining that AoA has sold out, I was ordered to leave. I remember an incidence once, written about on AoA, when Jake happened to go to a private university, and was ordered to leave because of questions he brought up. Stagliano acted as though the people who made you leave were oh so evil. It’s different though, I guess, when it’s HER thugs telling people what they can and can’t say. All of a sudden it’s a matter of freedom of association, not of free speech.
All of Kim’s sponsors know what she does. I know because I wrote all of her sponsors, at that time, and I told them. Her sponsors can choose not to believe me, but what a pathetic toady Dan must be if he’s unaware of the censorship that occurs on her site. She censors the unpopular and inconvenient. As far as I’m concerned she is as complicit as Offit or Gerberding or anyone within pharma or the media or public health, in this epidemic. All of the children who’ve developed autism because of the mercury in their flu shots in the last few years are on HER conscience, in exactly the same way as they are on the conscience of those within pharma and public health and the media. She let it happen, and she looked the other way, and she worked to silence those who spoke about it.
Robin--I too stopped reading AOA a while ago simply because I can't stomach KS but I have to say that her older and younger daughter are very severe. Not high functioning like you claim. I think the middle one is a bit more verbal and higher functioning.
DeleteAnonymous, I am curious why you were drawn to AoA to begin with.
DeleteAnd with that I will ask other commentors to please refrain from attacking Anonymous as I am the one soliciting an answer and very unfair to bash someone under that premise.
Hi Science Mom-I read all sorts of autism blogs. I read AOA for a while since I kept seeing it pop up but you nailed it when you say KS "is a vulgar, self-entitled, whiny opportunist." That became apparent pretty quickly. She took a page right out of the disgusting Jenny McCarthy handbook of exploiting her kids for some $$ and that I CAN'T tolerate. I just couldn't stomach her message any more.
DeleteI do seriously think KS has some mental health issues. Anyone at her age (or at any age IMO but at her age it's even worse!) who lives for Howard Stern and is convinced measles is an A-OK illness because, as she explains, the Brady Bunch kids got them on one episode and they were fine. WHAAAAAT? When I read that I really wondered, does this woman live in reality? She needs to seek help.
Thanks Anonymous. I didn't know if you subscribed to the whole AoA dogma but apparently not :D
DeleteI agree that her and others' exploitation and crass invasion of their children's privacy is vile and reeks of the notion that they clearly don't see their children as human beings.
Well said!
DeleteAdvocating for quality therapy and education for children on the spectrum is what I do and it sickens me when I see parents looking at their own kids as an opportunity to make some money and a name for themselves. KS is about as genuine as a piece of plastic. I am not surprised her idol is J. McCarthy. KS's judgement of what is real and what is not is seriously lacking to say the least.
Robin, while I can't argue with your characterisation of Kim S.; she's a vulgar, self-entitled, whiny opportunist, I simply can't abide by your statements that thimerosal is remotely responsible for any autisms. The amount, times of usage and symptoms of actual mercury toxicity simply aren't consistent with autism epidemiology.
ReplyDeleteGee Robin Nemeth is this you?
ReplyDeletehttp://users.wowway.com/~robin_nemeth/
So you are *fixated* on flu vaccines and the amount of Thimerosal contained in single doses and multi-dose vials of seasonal influenza vaccines, eh?
Before you claim to have *expertise* about vaccines, why don't you use your Google talents to find out about the amount of Thimerosal in the various seasonal flu vaccines?
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6132a3.htm#tab
BTW Robin, the subject of this blog is the incestious relationship of the anti-vaccine organizations, the wining and dining of Congressmen and their wives by AoA's "lobbyist", the disgraced former medical doctor Andrew Wakefield...and Jake Crosby's treachery.
Get a clue Robin, about what constitutes libel, slander and stalking behaviors...which Crosby engages in...before you post additional libelous articles on your blog.
Lilady, no, that is not me, nor is it my site. It's old. This is my site:
Deletewww.nemeths.info
I don't understand what you mean by 'additional libelous articles' on my blog. I don't consider my site a blog. But which statements do you believe to be libelous?
"www.nemeths.info" redirects to:
Deletehttp://users.wowway.com/~robin_nemeth/activism/index.html
Thanks for the link to your site Robin...which is in Vienna and written in German.
ReplyDeleteI've visited AoA and the "Robin Nemeth" who posts there is *fixated* on mercury in vaccines, has a history of picketing an Autism Speaks function in Cleveland and handing out tracts about the dangers of Thimerosal preservative in multi-dose vials of seasonal influenza vaccine. The "Robin Nemeth" at AoA also posted about the lack of insurance coverage for bizarre *treatments* (HBOT and homeopathy) for autism.
Why don't you tell us what your issues are with Thimerosal that are only in multi-dose vials of flu vaccine?
There isn't anything I'd like to say to you about thimerosal that isn't made clear in my site. Which seems to be in English for everyone I've spoken with about it.
ReplyDeleteRobin,
ReplyDeleteYour "site" has one paragraph about mercury in vaccines. Each of the 3 sentences is incorrect in one way or another. You admit you have nothing else to offer about thimerosal/mercury? Surprise - I believe you.
Also, you say Bill Gates called you a killer. Bill Gates said that those who engage in antivaccine activities kill children. You seem to think he means you. So I take it you do engage in antivax activities, and admit that you are antivaccine? If you do, and people don't vaccinate because of that, and come to harm, then you are the one responsible.
I did not say that I had nothing else to say about thimerosal in vaccines. I said there isn't anything else I'd like to say to you.
ReplyDeleteI am curious, tho, to know what it is on my "site" that you believe to be incorrect. I'm also curious as to why you refer to it as my "site", in quotes.
As for whether or not I'm responsible for the healthcare decisions that people make, I suppose you're right. I don't think that my words have quite the same influence and impact, however, as those of the CDC or of Bill Gates.
I can say that I've never profited from the advice and the information I've given (which I believe to be correct). I believe that there are many who've profited withing our healthcare industry and within our media who cannot say the same. I believe they've profited while being not only wrong, but deceitful, and that that deceit has seriously harmed hundreds of thousands of people.
I'd love to find out what a jury of my peers thinks. But our Congress and our courts have assured that that will never happen.
For one thing, the thimerosal bit is all about a decade out of date. All pediatric vaccines are available without thimerosal, including half of the influenza vaccines. See this table.
DeleteThere has been no evidence that the amount of thimerosal that used to be in vaccines caused any harm. But several states have mandated that children and pregnant women only get the thimerosal free vaccines with exactly the same amount data Wakefield used to tell parents to get single vaccines (none). And, yes, twenty years ago kids died from influenza just like the over sixty that have died this year.
If you’re correct and there are states that require thimerosal free shots for pregnant women and children, then good for them. As for flu shots being available without thimerosal, this is true but not relevant. I expect that the parents of the children who were harmed by the mercury in the flu shots because those parents weren’t aware that toxin free shots are available would still like redress for the harm that was done. And I believe that they should be entitled to it—either from the vaccine makers themselves or else from those in the regulatory agencies whose job is it is to insure the safety of our medicine.
DeleteI don’t know if the percentage of shots administered that have 25 mcg of thimerosal has gone down in recent years. I’ve seen the table you’ve linked to; have, in fact, linked to it myself in flyers that I once distributed. It does not state that half of the shots administered have no thimerosal. It in fact has no information regarding how many doses of each type were administered. I haven’t looked into that particular matter since ’07. When I did the things I discovered about the competency, honesty, and hubris of those in the industry was frightening. Perhaps one day when I find the time I will put the log I kept online. It started with an email from April S. (I almost never got a full name no matter who I was talking with), a Consumer Response Representative at Walgreens, and it went downhill as I worked my way up through higher paid and allegedly more responsible individuals within the vaccine industry and public health. The email read, verbatim:
‘…Thank you for taking your time to contact our Corporate Offices. We
appreciate hearing from our Thank you for taking your time to contact our
Corporate Offices. We appreciate hearing from our customers and value all
comments received.
The flu shots use thimerosal as a preservative, which is mercury-based but
the mercury levels in the preservative are very low (it is the same stuff
used in most contact lense solutions). If you have a mercury allergy, we
recommend that you do not get a flu shot…’
Lol, the whole thing would've been really pretty hillarious. If I was able to find any of this stuff amusing anymore.
Perhaps you should have just gone to a real medical clinic, or checked the FDA link first.
Delete"I expect that the parents of the children who were harmed by the mercury in the flu shots..."
Still there is no evidence the thimerosal that used to be in vaccines caused harm, so that statement is a false assumption.
Chris, if you don’t consider the picture of the skull and crossbones on the bottle, or the information in the material safety data sheet, as evidence that thimerosal can cause harm, I doubt there is anything anyone could say that would ever convince you.
ReplyDeleteI suppose one could argue that a toxin in small enough doses is no longer toxic. If you’ve any information regarding what that threshold is for thimerosal, injected, I’d love to see it. In the meantime let me draw your attention to the fact that various government agencies list mercury containing vaccines as hazardous waste, which must be disposed of using special means.
For instance, I found this
http://des.nh.gov/organization/commissioner/p2au/pps/hs/pphfp/categories/faq.htm
which states that products which contain mercury preservative at 0.2 mg per liter should be disposed of as hazardous waste.
Thimerosal is a mercury preservative. It is present in most flu shots at 25 mcg per one half ml dose. That’s 50 mg per liter. Or 250 times the concentration that is considered hazardous waste by the State of New Hampshire. Oops.
Btw, in more recent columns, AoA has taken to pointing out that there is mercury in the flu shots. Better late than never. She’s still guilty, as far as I’m concerned, for the harm done between the time she covered up the truth in order to further her agenda with Autism Speaks, and her more recent columns in which it is acknowledged how much mercury is in flu shots.
The poison is in the dose, so the full bottle of just thimerosal is dangerous. And there is still no real scientific evidence that the amount that used to be in vaccines caused any harm. I do not care what AoA says.
DeleteDo tell us which vaccines in the American pediatric schedule are only available with thimerosal. Again, don't mention influenza because four out of eight do not have thimerosal.
Why should I tell you which vaccines in the pediatric schedule are only available with thimerosal? None of your questions address the issue that concerns me -- the number of people in recent years who've been injected with dangerous levels of mercury, and who still are being injected.
DeleteYou say 'there is still no real scientific evidence that the amount that used to be in vaccines caused any harm'. It's STILL IN vaccines. You could see this yourself from the table that you’ve just told me to look at. What don’t you understand about this table? 25 mcg per dose is the level that was of concern with the pediatric vaccines when the industry and health officials agreed that it would be removed. There is still 25 mcg per dose in flu vaccines. Which are given to pregnant women who aren’t savvy enough to ask for the thimerosal free version. And to their babies. The AAP states that the mercury was removed as a precautionary measure ‘before data was available on the risks of thimerosal’. What evidence have they presented that the data shows, now, that there is no risk? What studies have they presented that weren’t funded by the CDC or the vaccine industry?
The people who’ve set the limits on the amount of mercury that can be disposed of without special measures being taken believe there’s evidence that significantly lower levels of mercury preservative can cause harm. Do you think their regulations are baseless? Would you have me believe that the New Hampshire guidelines for the disposal of mercury preservatives in hospitals are completely meaningless?
There are scientific studies up the giggy which come to the conclusion that vaccines are harmful. TACA has a long list, and Ginger Taylor has put together a shorter one. There is video presented by the University of Calgary which shows cell death. Sure you can claim that those studies are cherry picked, as I will claim that the ones mentioned on the news between pharmaceutical commercials and funded by the pharmaceutical industry have been cherry picked. But I will never be able to present the studies which I believe show a link between vaccination and neurological injury to a jury, and neither will anyone else. Congress has passed a law granting vaccine makers indemnity. They cannot be held accountable even in the event of a known and preventable design defect. The first amendment of the Constitution grants everyone the right to sue for redress for harm done. Everyone except for the people who believe that the ones they loved were harmed by vaccines, that is.
Lilady, I am aware that there is a difference between ethyl and methyl mercury. Ethyl mercury is the kind that vaccine makers claim is safe. I’ve never seen evidence that it is. Burbacher used to be trotted out as evidence of the safety of ethyl mercury, until even Burbacher himself said that his study showed no such thing.
I am done discussing this with you. Perhaps when evidence can be presented in a court of law, as it can for any other product which people believe has caused harm, I will have more patience for these sorts of discussions.
"Why should I tell you which vaccines in the pediatric schedule are only available with thimerosal?"
DeleteBecause of the claims you are making. You are claiming there is harm, when that has not been demonstrated. You are claiming that people are still being damaged by thimerosal, so you should show demonstrate exactly which vaccines are causing the harm.
It is a simple question to answer, especially since I provided a link where you can look up the table yourself. I assume you can read data table.
"Perhaps when evidence can be presented in a court of law, as it can for any other product which people believe has caused harm,"
Scientific evidence is not proved in a court of law.
@ Robin:
Delete"There is video presented by the University of Calgary which shows cell death. Sure you can claim that those studies are cherry picked, as I will claim that the ones mentioned on the news between pharmaceutical commercials and funded by the pharmaceutical industry have been cherry picked."
Really? A bunch of us *Big Pharma Shills*, commented about the video that you use as your *source*.
http://autismum.com/2012/12/11/overdosing-brain-cells-with-stuff-is-bad/
I provided a website for Robin Nemeth to check out the amount of Thimerosal in multi-dose flu vaccine vials a week ago...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6132a3.htm#tab
Then there is this commentary in support of the AAP Statement for continued use of Thimerosal in multi-dose vials used by HCWs who working with WHO/GAVI, who immunize infants and children against serious, often deadly, vaccine-preventable-diseases in the developing world.
(hint) Robin: make certain you know the difference between the organomercury compound Thimerosal used in multi-dose vaccine vials and elemental Hg and inorganic mercury, before you open my link...and before you comment again:
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/131/1/149
‘Drowned’ in thimerosal? I don’t know where your lovely scientist is getting her concentration from, but I’m reading ten to the minus seven M mercury, in the University of Calvary video.
ReplyDelete25 micrograms of thimerosal in a half ml dose vaccine converts to a molarity of 1.2 times ten to the minus four. Considerably more than the concentration of mercury which is shown in the video as causing degeneration.
Don’t think I’ll read anything past the word ‘drowned’…
Answer my question: which vaccine on the American pediatric schedule is only available with thimerosal?
DeleteAlso videos are not evidence, especially if you don't know the difference between in vitro and in vivo.
So being applied directly to naked cells in in vitro culture is just like an in vivo system Robin?
DeleteConcentration in a baby’s bloodstream would be about 2 times ten to the minus seven after a 25 mcg/dose flu vaccine. Still higher than the in vitro concentration shown in the video, where neuron degeneration occurs. Yes, I understand that in vitro conditions aren’t the same as in vivo. Still a cause for quite a lot of concern, I would tend to think, especially given the dearth of safety studies by people without a conflict of interest or on the run. But as I’ve said, I lose patience with these types of discussions. This debate should be taking place in a court of law, not in the court of public opinion.
ReplyDeleteWhat vaccine is administered in the bloodstream?
DeleteIs the ones that must have thimerosal? So, which vaccines in the American pediatric schedule only is available with thimerosal?
Okay, there is some a bit later. Where are you getting your numbers? And still there is a big difference between in vitro and in vivo.
DeleteNow go to the link provided by lilady:
http://autismum.com/2012/12/11/overdosing-brain-cells-with-stuff-is-bad/
The lowly science geek gets these numbers: The lowest amount of mercury which caused ROS generation in those astrocyte cells was over 60 times the amount of mercury found in the bloodstream of infants within 48 hours of vaccination. The *average* amount of mercury found in those infants was 3.6 (+/- 2.1) ng/mL or 3.6 ug/L. That means that the cell lines were exposed to 140 times (on average) the amount of mercury than what is found in the bloodstream of premature, low birth weight babies 48 hours after vaccination.
This debate should be taking place in a court of law, not in the court of public opinion.
DeleteWhy is that? Because judges like in the Italian case can be hoodwinked? Even the special masters in the OAP did not 'decide the science' of the vaccine-autism claim; it was the the evidence and the experts that determined this long before the OAP.
To repeat what Chris has said, science is not decided in a court of law but by scientists in open discussion, exchange of evidence and debate.
I also see that your numbers have been shown to be in error. If you understand the difference between in vitro and in vivo systems then how can you still maintain that the former supports your argument? I could spill some sugar on a plate of naked cells and observe changes and cell death.
O/T. Even though I don't "Tweet", I've been following your "tweets" and I cannot link to the CDC adjusted seasonal flu estimates, that appeared in the February 22, 2013 MMWR issue.
ReplyDeleteI located that article here...
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6207a2.htm?s_cid=mm6207a2_w
Spam Alert Above.
ReplyDeletethanks Lilady :)
Delete