MMR does not cause autism. There is no controversy about this. Medical experts agree. There is no epidemiological connection between MMR and autism (in Denmark, England, Japan, Japan, Japan, Poland, and the United States), papers alleging a connection have been retracted, no one has ever reproduced the "MMR measles virus infiltrates gut, causes autism" claims of Andrew Wakefield and the largest court hearing, the Autism Omnibus trials in the US, has denied all three test cases and appeals for the various "autism is caused by vaccines" hypotheses. The media hype, largely responsible for the drop in MMR uptake in the UK and subsequent mumps and measles outbreaks has died down, parent confidence is rising, and MMR coverage rates are picking up.
It seems this is not common knowledge across Europe though. This March, a provincial court in Rimini, awarded a family €140000 for their son's autism "caused by the MMR". A quick glance at the plaintiff's side reveals an anti-vaccine "dream team":
Their lawyer, Luca Ventaloro, is a well known Italian anti-vaccine advocate (seen here on YouTube explaining how to legally avoid compulsory vaccination). And while their doctor, Massimo Montinari (misspelled as Montanari in the court decision), has no proper biomedical research papers on autism or MMR or vaccines in general, he authored the book "Autismo: i vaccini fra le cause della malattia" and sells his own autism "cure" protocol. Why the defendants, the Italian Ministry of Health, apparently did not present any of the huge body of evidence against any association between MMR and autism is not clear. Ironically, the Cochrane Team reviewing the MMR is Italian. After the ruling, horses bolted and all, it appears that this decision will be appealed. Already, the Italian Federation of Pediatricians has protested and pointed out the poor factual basis on which the court's decision was made.
Now, the lack of evidence-based information in the Italian decision and the bias in the parents' team should be blatantly obvious to anyone with a keyboard and access to the internet. Nevertheless, the Daily Mail, not entirely innocent in the original media campaign against the MMR, joined the ranks of the usual anti-vaccine activists (no links to those guys) and published a sensationalist article:
MMR: A mother's victory. The vast majority of doctors say there is no link between the triple jab and autism, but could an Italian court case reignite this controversial debate?
What they obviously mean is "let's help them reignite the debate, so our web site gets clicks and our paper sells copies - yeah". That kind of fear mongering is highly irresponsible in the light of the lack of evidence for a connection between MMR and autism (see above - interestingly, Autism Omnibus verdicts never made the Daily Mail) and record measles outbreaks across Europe and the UK. A fellow blogger, equally astonished about this inflammatory piece of poorly researched journalism, now revealed the Daily Mail author's motivation. Sue Reid is just simply anti-vaccine minded, conspiracy theories, pharma shill allegations and all, although she seems to recognise that this is not popular and threatens libel action. If the comments are correct, she is no stranger to controversial reporting based on fabricated evidence either.
In any case, the ruling is unlikely to stand very long - the inflammatory language used in the Daily Mail piece is likely to cost some children their health. The current measles outbreak in Merseyside has well over 300 patients, with a hospitalisation rate of 18%. Well done, Sue Reid and the Daily Fail.
It seems this is not common knowledge across Europe though. This March, a provincial court in Rimini, awarded a family €140000 for their son's autism "caused by the MMR". A quick glance at the plaintiff's side reveals an anti-vaccine "dream team":
Their lawyer, Luca Ventaloro, is a well known Italian anti-vaccine advocate (seen here on YouTube explaining how to legally avoid compulsory vaccination). And while their doctor, Massimo Montinari (misspelled as Montanari in the court decision), has no proper biomedical research papers on autism or MMR or vaccines in general, he authored the book "Autismo: i vaccini fra le cause della malattia" and sells his own autism "cure" protocol. Why the defendants, the Italian Ministry of Health, apparently did not present any of the huge body of evidence against any association between MMR and autism is not clear. Ironically, the Cochrane Team reviewing the MMR is Italian. After the ruling, horses bolted and all, it appears that this decision will be appealed. Already, the Italian Federation of Pediatricians has protested and pointed out the poor factual basis on which the court's decision was made.
Now, the lack of evidence-based information in the Italian decision and the bias in the parents' team should be blatantly obvious to anyone with a keyboard and access to the internet. Nevertheless, the Daily Mail, not entirely innocent in the original media campaign against the MMR, joined the ranks of the usual anti-vaccine activists (no links to those guys) and published a sensationalist article:
MMR: A mother's victory. The vast majority of doctors say there is no link between the triple jab and autism, but could an Italian court case reignite this controversial debate?
What they obviously mean is "let's help them reignite the debate, so our web site gets clicks and our paper sells copies - yeah". That kind of fear mongering is highly irresponsible in the light of the lack of evidence for a connection between MMR and autism (see above - interestingly, Autism Omnibus verdicts never made the Daily Mail) and record measles outbreaks across Europe and the UK. A fellow blogger, equally astonished about this inflammatory piece of poorly researched journalism, now revealed the Daily Mail author's motivation. Sue Reid is just simply anti-vaccine minded, conspiracy theories, pharma shill allegations and all, although she seems to recognise that this is not popular and threatens libel action. If the comments are correct, she is no stranger to controversial reporting based on fabricated evidence either.
In any case, the ruling is unlikely to stand very long - the inflammatory language used in the Daily Mail piece is likely to cost some children their health. The current measles outbreak in Merseyside has well over 300 patients, with a hospitalisation rate of 18%. Well done, Sue Reid and the Daily Fail.
Sue Reid and/or the parents can't even keep a proper timeline. If the MMR was to blame, one wouldn't see an onset of those kinds of symptoms the same day. That must have been one lousy defence.
ReplyDeleteDid you read the article Science mom? Their son had an immediate negative reaction to the shot, and his health spiraled downhill in the ensuing days, months and years. As a mother to a 7 month old, the picture of Valentino reminds me of my precious boy. I can assure you that a mother's instint knows when something devastatingly concrete happens, and common sense would allude that the shot was the tipping point. Autism aside, there are other problems facing our over -vaccinated children. For Miss Catherina, the daily mail using fear mongering tactics to sell newspapers... ARE YOU SERIOUS? i think you are confused.. Doctors are the culprits who use fear mongering to force their money making vaccines on the worlds precious children. Outbreaks of M,M, and R are happening in heavliy vaccinated areas! Please do NOT use the herd mentality excuse or at least understand that means the shots do not work to protect a vaccinated child. Perhaps you want the entire herd to be sick! at the end of the day, it is a parents right to choose, and I think it is commendable that the Daily Mail has the balls to bring the highly controversial debate to the forefront!
DeleteAnony: Please do NOT use the herd mentality excuse or at least understand that means the shots do not work to protect a vaccinated child.
DeleteCan you explain why the incidence of measles declined by 90% in the USA between 1960 and 1970, and have never been more than half the amount in 1970 (which was an epidemic year)?
Did you read the article Science mom? Their son had an immediate negative reaction to the shot, and his health spiraled downhill in the ensuing days, months and years.
ReplyDeleteOf course I read the article, I commented on the timeline they gave didn't I? And it takes about two weeks for such an adverse reaction to occur with the exception of an allergic/anaphylactic reaction. Live vaccines take time to proliferate so the child had something coincident to the MMR.
I can assure you that a mother's instint knows when something devastatingly concrete happens, and common sense would allude that the shot was the tipping point.
Oh bullshit! Parental recall and your so-called common sense are the worst factors to rely on. Why do you think there are so many who believe vaccinesdidit when there are other, more plausible explanations?
Outbreaks of M,M, and R are happening in heavliy vaccinated areas!
Right and the vast majority of those with the disease are not vaccinated or under-vaccinated. Do you even bother to look at the stats before making such foolish declarations?
Please do NOT use the herd mentality excuse or at least understand that means the shots do not work to protect a vaccinated child. Perhaps you want the entire herd to be sick! at the end of the day, it is a parents right to choose, and I think it is commendable that the Daily Mail has the balls to bring the highly controversial debate to the forefront!
Perhaps you would like to explain the decline of diseases and or severity where vaccine coverage is high then. You are obviously not familiar with the Daily Mail, it's like getting your news from the National Enquirer. There is no debate, just a manufactroversy created by people like you who don't have the science chops to understand.
The integrity of science... This is a simple matter of identifying logical fallacies, deceitful tatics, and the abuse of public trust. the scientific community needs to be aware of #1 - INTERNAL PROBLEMS (peer review, fraud..) and #2 - EXTERNAL FACTORS (politics, funding..) I will take my own instinctual power to make decisions over any doctor who spends 5 mintes with my child and then advocates unhealthy susbstances any day! There is a time and a place for modern medicine, its called treatment for problems - not causing them. If the daily mail is such trash, why do you both even care and bother to blog about what they write! Again, it is your right to do whatever you choose, as it is mine.
ReplyDeleteThe fraud? Have you heard of the Retraction Watch blog? There are people looking over your shoulder all of the time. It was noticed early on that Wakefield's study was wrong, it took some investigation to find out why: fraud.
DeleteOooh, my mommy instincts (plus a stupid book) ended up with my kid in an ambulance to spend time in a hospital emergency department. Here is a word of advice: never give a kid a diluted apple juice when they have diarrhea, even if the Natural Baby Care book recommends it. Apparently it makes them poo more, and then they get dehydrated, which can cause seizures (and he already had a history of neonatal seizures). That book was burned in the fireplace when we got home from the hospital.
"There is a time and a place for modern medicine, its called treatment for problems - not causing them."
So you are against preventing diseases? In the most recent outbreak of measles in Europe about one in four cases are ending up in the hospital. I just had a kid spend five days in a hospital after surgery for a genetic condition. Trust me it was not pleasant, nor cheap (almost three thousand dollars per day after being released from the ICU following surgery).
Also, much of the care in a hospital for measles, diphtheria, tetanus, Hib and pertussis is respiratory support. My son found having a tube in his nose going down his throat a very unpleasant experience.
Are there other conditions that you would prefer to have treated than prevented? You could just ignore your doctor's recommendation to exercise, eat right, limit alcohol, not use tanning salons and not smoke. Then just him/her treat the resulting type 2 diabetes, heart disease, cancer and other ailments.
My mommy instincts tell me that I want to avoid my kids from feeling miserable, sick and ending up in the hospital (a place I am too familiar with). As a parent of a kid who had seizures as an infant (before any vaccine) with resulting developmental disorders, and a genetic heart disorder: I do not understand you people who prefer kids getting sick with vaccine preventable diseases.
chris, i am sorry about taking ill advice from a natural baby book, as well as having your child end up in the hospital with seizures. I need to clarify my earlier statement... I believe in taking care of your self 100% - mind, body, and soul. My son had a birth defect that required life saving surgery at 2 days old, and went on to have 2 more by the time he was 4 months old to permanently fix the problem. I am far too familiar with IV's, MRI's, child morphine, etc. and i am undoubtedly greatful for the miraculous surgeons who 50 years ago may not have been able to save his life. He is thriving, healthy and happy, weighing over 20 pounds, and you would not even know he started out with problems. The salient point here is, we have amazing medical practices that can handle a variety of problems that arise, and i am in full favor of them.
DeleteI was not vaccinated as a child, and being a first time mother at 40, I have led a healthy life, and even had a marvelous pregnancy. I am curious to know if you passed on the heb B shot for your son when he was a couple days old? when I did, my doctor looked at me like I was crazy, as they did when I passed on the flu shot when i was 6 months preggers, trying his best to guilt me into it, as he bragged that he talks 99% into taking it.... He pulled out all the stops in his efforts, even asking me if i cared for my baby as much as they did! again, I am sorry for the pain you went through with your child, as no parent would wish that on anyone!
My son is 23 years old, and there was no HepB vaccine then. Neither was there a vaccine for chicken pox, an illness that caused a month of havoc and misery in my house. Anyone who thinks it is okay for a child to suffer two weeks with dozens of open itchy pox is cruel and sadistic.
DeleteNor was there a vaccine for the disease that caused over a week of diarrhea that caused the dehydration that led to the nasty seizure. Fortunately there is now, and fewer children (and parents) need to go through that misery.
The fact that you were not vaccinated and are okay dokay is just an anecdote, and you have been protected by herd immunity by the high immunization rates of your community. But that is eroding by folks who think those vaccines are optional. Measles is coming back, and it is foolish to think your luck can last.
we blog about this, because people like you take the word of the Daily Fail as gospel, Anonymous.
ReplyDeleteI will take my own instinctual power to make decisions over any doctor who spends 5 mintes with my child and then advocates unhealthy susbstances any day!
ReplyDeleteAnd that is why you fail...
Your own "instinctual power" (sic) is clearly no substitute for actually understanding the science behind vaccinations and infectious diseases. To pretend otherwise is rather embarrassing.
Wow, I'm flabbergasted that Sue Reid was so *indiscreet* with her emails to James...she used every phrase that is listed in the anti-vaccine playbook. There was a *pretense* of reporting both *sides of the vaccine issue* in the Daily Mail, but she couldn't sustain that *pretense*. Good on James for not folding after Reid's threats...and for publishing the emails.
ReplyDelete@ anonymous
"...and I think it is commendable that the Daily Mail has the balls to bring the highly controversial debate to the forefront!"
And, I think Isabella Thomas has her colossal balls to post on James' blog...with her history at JABS and her referring parents to the bottom-feeding lawyer...who in turn, referred his clients to Wakefield.
This is the same Isabella Thomas who allowed her two children to undergo painful, invasive not-medically-indicated tests and who was complicit in falsifying her childrens' medical histories. They were all part of a conspiracy; she was going to score big time money for her childrens' MMR vaccine-induced autism, the lawyer was aiming to set a legal precedence...and fame within the legal community and, Wakefield's financial future would be secure.
The developmentally disabled children in Wakefield's study were the losers. They were used as guinea pigs, their bodies were violated, their spirits broken...because their parents handed them over to Wakefield.
"This is the same Isabella Thomas who allowed her two children to undergo painful, invasive not-medically-indicated tests and who was complicit in falsifying her childrens' medical histories. They were all part of a conspiracy; she was going to score big time money for her childrens' MMR vaccine-induced autism, the lawyer was aiming to set a legal precedence...and fame within the legal community and, Wakefield's financial future would be secure."
ReplyDeleteThis is PURE conjecture, and could be construed as libel. And disgusting, to boot.
No, it is not conjecture when Ms. Thomas admitted it herself elsewhere: My son’s were part of the Lancet study so I think I have more facts about this case than all of you put together.
DeleteThis is PURE conjecture, and could be construed as libel. And disgusting, to boot.
ReplyDeleteIt is neither and go stuff your libel nonsense.
THIS GOES BACK TO SCIENCE MOM... WHO DECLARED I DID NOT BOTHER TO LOOK AT STATS before making foolish declariations
ReplyDeleteSurprise! Whooping Cough Spreads Mainly through Vaccinated Populations
In 2010, the largest outbreak of whooping cough in over 50 years occurred in California. Around that same time, a scare campaign was launched in the California by Pharma-funded medical trade associations, state health officials and national media, targeting people opting out of receiving pertussis vaccine, falsely accusing them of causing the outbreak.
~~However, research published in March of this year paints a very different picture than the one spread by the media2.
~~In fact, the study showed that 81 percent of 2010 California whooping cough cases in people under the age of 18 occurred in those who were fully up to date on the whooping cough vaccine. Eleven percent had received at least one shot, but not the entire recommended series, and only eight percent of those stricken were unvaccinated.
"This first detailed analysis of a recent North American pertussis outbreak found widespread disease among fully vaccinated older children. Starting approximately three years after prior vaccine dose, attack rates markedly increased, suggesting inadequate protection or durability from the acellular vaccine."
The pertussis (whooping cough) vaccine is included as a component in "combination" shots that include tetanus and diphtheria (DPT, DTaP, Tdap) and may also include polio, hepatitis B, and/or Haemophilus Influenza B (Hib). CDC data shows 84 percent of children under the age of three have received at least FOUR DTaP shots—which is the acellular pertussis vaccine that was approved in the United States in 1996—yet, despite this high vaccination rate, whooping cough still keeps circulating among both the vaccinated and unvaccinated.
So, as clearly evidenced in this study, the vaccine likely provides very little, if any, protection from the disease. In fact, the research suggests those who are fully vaccinated may in fact be more likely to get the disease than unvaccinated populations.
....WHY VACCINES FAIL DESPITE CLAIMED EFFICACY...stayed tuned
What does this rant have to do with the MMR vaccine?
Deleteindeed, Chris - but the constant mixing of topic breeds new vaccine myths...
DeleteTHIS GOES BACK TO SCIENCE MOM... WHO DECLARED I DID NOT BOTHER TO LOOK AT STATS before making foolish declariations
DeleteYea, and you're still doing it. Why don't you show the stats for high measles, mumps and rubella disease in highly-vaccinated populations. That is what you claimed after all.
So, as clearly evidenced in this study, the vaccine likely provides very little, if any, protection from the disease. In fact, the research suggests those who are fully vaccinated may in fact be more likely to get the disease than unvaccinated populations.
Oh yea, more stupid. You don't know much about statistics do you? There are more vaccinated than unvaccinated so just because there are more vaccinated getting the disease, there are several factors to account for which you obviously don't have the capacity to consider. Please make the calculations based upon the following and get back to me rather than mindless regurgitations of articles you think support your biases.
1. Vaccine efficacy
2. Attack rates in vaccinated v. unvaccinated
3. Disease severity stratified by age and vaccine status.
Interestingly in a recent article published in the journal Pediatrics4, author James D. Cherry, MD, reveals that estimates for pertussis vaccine efficacy have been significantly inflated due to the case definitions adopted by the World Health Organization (WHO) in 1991, which required laboratory confirmation and 21 days or more of paroxysmal cough. All less severe cases were excluded. He states:
ReplyDelete---"I was a member of the WHO committee and disagreed with the primary case definition because it was clear at that time that this definition would eliminate a substantial number of cases and therefore inflate reported efficacy values. Nevertheless, the Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research of the Food and Drug Administration accepted this definition, and package inserts of the US-licensed DTaP vaccines reflect this"
....For example, Infanrix... and Daptacel... have stated efficacies of 84% and 85% respectively. When less severe cough illness is included, however, the efficacies of these 2 vaccines decrease to 71% and 78% respectively. In addition, even these latter efficacies are likely inflated owing to investigator or parental compliance with the study protocol (observer bias)."
Dr. Cherry lists eight potential reasons for why the efficacy of pertussis vaccines are overestimated:
1.Overexpectation of efficacy because of case definition.
2.Inflated estimates of efficacy because of observer bias.
3.Other Bordetella sp are the cause of similar cough illnesses.
4.Lack of initial potency.
5.Decay in antibody over time.
6.Incomplete antigen package.
7.Incorrect balance of antigens in the vaccine.
8.Genetic changes in B pertussis
IS that enough stats for you SCIENCE MOM?
Again, what does this have to do with the MMR vaccine, and Sue Reid's misinformation?
DeleteThough you might find this podcast interesting.
IS that enough stats for you SCIENCE MOM?
DeletePsst, I already mentioned this editorial in the pertussis post. It would also be more interesting if you would actually understand the editorial and his conclusions.
and to James Gavin who commented on my understanding of vaccines and infectious diseases....
ReplyDeleteI do understand that the business partnership between government health agencies and vaccine manufacturers is too close and is getting out of hand. we are being discriminated because we want to be free and excercise our right to informed consent... IT IS A CHOICE (at least in my state) and to be in favor of taking that away, is rather embarassing. You are entitled to vaccinate as it is my right to avoid them like poison! SO, i will clearly rely on my instinctual power over the "so-called science behind vaccines" anyday and I will undoubtedly NOT be pretending! ... you are free to be embarrased by my choices.
IT IS A CHOICE (at least in my state) and to be in favor of taking that away, is rather embarassing. You are entitled to vaccinate as it is my right to avoid them like poison! SO, i will clearly rely on my instinctual power over the "so-called science behind vaccines" anyday and I will undoubtedly NOT be pretending! ... you are free to be embarrased by my choices.
DeleteYou are free to make your stupid choices, no one is forcing vaccination on you at all so what is your problem? Don't forget the rest of us are free to shun you and your spawn and criticise your choices.
i would never have this conversation with anyone who follows mass vaccinations policies. EVER... as it would fall on deaf ears of those who follow advice from mainstream pediatricians. that is kind of my point.... Most pediatricians bully parents into vaccinations, or even refuse to treat their children if they are not part of the program. My rant on whooping cough was just used to regurgitate facts that support the problems with vaccines in general... sorry that you could not make that connection. Hello! or are you saying you dont agree with some vaccines?? interesting... I would never shun anyone or their innocent spawn, nor would I openly criticize someone else's parenting. My main purpose in joining this circle was to say that the boy in italy was dramitically changed after the shots. Cause and effect... Please tell me how long the manufacturers monitor adverse reactions to shots? and you say it is a coincidence?
ReplyDeleteThere is a great debate here, and again, i hope the right to choose will remain intact in the remaining 29 states, including mine! here is a good point i like to share....
"The fact that manmade vaccines cannot replicate the body's natural experience with the disease is one of the key points of contention between those who insist that mankind cannot live without mass use of multiple vaccines and those who believe that mankind's biological integrity will be severely compromised by their continued use.
... [I]s it better to protect children against infectious disease early in life through temporary immunity from a vaccine, or are they better off contracting certain contagious infections in childhood and attaining permanent immunity? Do vaccine complications ultimately cause more chronic illness and death than infectious diseases do? These questions essentially pit trust in human intervention against trust in nature and the natural order, which existed long before vaccines were created by man."
"In most cases natural exposure to disease would give you a longer lasting, more robust, qualitatively superior immunity because it gives you both cell mediated immunity and humoral immunity," "Humoral is the antibody production. The way you measure vaccine-induced immunity is by how high the antibody titers are. (How many antibodies you have, basically.)
But the problem is, the cell mediated immunity is very important as well. Most vaccines evade cell mediated immunity and go straight for the antibodies, which is only one part of immunity. That's been the big problem with the production of vaccines."
So, again, shun me if you will, it is just a reminder to not have converstions about the topic with the herd who takes advice from pediatricians who don't allow for parents the choice to opt out. how many vaccines did you have as a child? how many do pediatricians push today... Please look at all the problems facing children today and make a rational deduction! I will not shun you, I will just feel sorry for you for you, and children (if you have them)... peace and health to you all......(some are born lucky with immune systems strong enough to handle the toxic overload) perhaps you are one of them.
My rant on whooping cough was just used to regurgitate facts that support the problems with vaccines in general... sorry that you could not make that connection. Hello! or are you saying you dont agree with some vaccines??
DeleteFirst of all, wrong post; that belongs with the pertussis post. Also, you didn't just use that to support the problems with vaccines in general. You abused a valid critique of a single vaccine which doesn't apply to others. I don't expect anti-vaxxers to grasp that though since they orgasm over any vaccine critical report without considering the totality of such reports. Dr. Cherry doesn't say don't vax now does he? On the contrary.
My main purpose in joining this circle was to say that the boy in italy was dramitically changed after the shots. Cause and effect... Please tell me how long the manufacturers monitor adverse reactions to shots? and you say it is a coincidence?
No, you can't say that because you aren't privy to his medical records. Furthermore, the decision is being heavily criticised for relying upon Wakefield's completely fraudulent study and not actual science and evidence.
here is a good point i like to share....
Oh really? That you'd like to share or merely puke out Mercola's idiocy and not even cite it properly?
Please look at all the problems facing children today and make a rational deduction! I will not shun you, I will just feel sorry for you for you, and children (if you have them)... peace and health to you all......(some are born lucky with immune systems strong enough to handle the toxic overload) perhaps you are one of them.
Amazing how I can actually examine (and understand) the science and reach the conclusions I do. Where would we be without such enlightened fools as you? Oh that's right, the brunt of the rest of the world's jokes about what stupid entitled prats Americans are. I have young, beautiful, healthy, vaccinated, bright children who already can think critically. I guess that dashes your dumb observations and doesn't give you the lock on supremacy that you have lead yourself to believe.
to concentrate on one question out of the entire waffle
ReplyDeletehow many vaccines did you have as a child?
BCG (live bacterial)
smallpox ("live" viral)
OPV ("live" viral)
Diphtheria
Tetanus
Pertussis (whole cell dead bacterial)
Measles
thousands and thousands of antigens, loads of injections, preservatives, and vaccination scars. My son's DTaP/IPV/hib/hepB protects him against 6 diseases using just 22 antigens - I cannot say how I cool I find that :)
and another from your pathetic attempt at an insult at the end of your waffling bit
ReplyDeletePlease look at all the problems facing children today and make a rational deduction!
Let's see, when I was born, infant mortality was 25/1000. When my son was born, infant mortality was 5/1000. About 20000 kids per year who survive now who would not have survived back then.
and you are giving credit to the vaccines?!! my son survived because a life saving surgery to fix his colon has been introduced. 50 years ago, he would not have survived! what is your explanation to the increase of allergies, diabetes, ADHD, MS, cancer, and the list increasingly goes on.. gaining in numbers. DO YOU NOT SEE a correlation?!?!?!?! it is so obvious to me. My doctor does not push vaccines, obviously, and his statistics of the 40,000 children he has seen over the past 30 years is quite impressive. to me this is common sense Catherina! when you hurt your self, you fix it.... putting toxic vaccines into tiny babies does not fix anything. Heb B?!?! is your son sharing needles and having sex? it is crazy to think that they are pushing that shot, like it is no big deal! really... is is absurd. sounds like my emotions are critizing your parenting! sorry for that
ReplyDeleteHeb B?!?! is your son sharing needles and having sex?
DeleteAnd this is exactly why stupid people shouldn't breed.
I am certainly giving some credit to vaccines and the "field tries" (e.g. going without pertussis vaccine) have proven that this credit is due.
DeleteI see a lot of capitals in your post. Did you know that the number of oranges imported into Germany correlated with the increase of cancer in the 70ies and 80ies? Correlation ≠ causation. You cannot fix certain things (like measles encephalitis for example), therefore you vaccinate. Are you also against seat belts and children's car seats?
you find it cool to put neurotoxins in your son! they have been associated with many neurological disorders,... That is sad
ReplyDeletePlease tell us exactly what neurotoxins are in the MMR vaccine, and how they cause more issues than measles, mumps and rubella. Knowing, of course, that measles causes encephalitis in about one in a thousand cases, mumps can cause deafness and congenital rubella syndrome is a known cause of autism.
DeleteI don't think you understood what I was talking about Anon, so waffle on.
DeleteScience mom...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.thinktwice.com/hepb.htm
Pretty sure all smart people who read what is in this website would cautiously opt out of HEP B. The most poignant part is the story of the couple who lost their 5 week daughter 16 hours after receiving heb b shot. Science mom and Catherina are you going to say that this was a coincidence... or SIDS....? again i will say, it is your freedom to take the poision...
also, Catherina, i understood what nonsense you were talking about.... but what i want to ask you - what does mortality rates have to do with the growing number of problems facing children today? again... mortality rates measure only 1 year of an infants life. Vaccines continue to pile up for years! as do all the problems... ear infections, allergies, neurological problems etc.
again, my son is an example of surviving (increasing mortality rates) because of the advancements in medical procedures. Not because of vaccines!! and yes.. that increases infant mortality.
*You gals have called me stupid with dumb observations -- perhaps you are just projecting! take a step back and think you could be letting ravenous corporate greed and mindless bureaucracy overwhelm your common sense... or maybe you are part of the corporate greed yourselfs >>>>>>>>>
Drug and vaccine manufacturer Merck was caught red-handed by two of its own scientists faking vaccine efficacy data by spiking blood samples with animal antibodies. GlaxoSmithKline has just been fined a whopping $3 billion for bribing doctors, lying to the FDA, hiding clinical trial data and fraudulent marketing. Pfizer, meanwhile has been sued by the nation's pharmacy retailers for what is alleged as an "overarching anticompetitive scheme" to keep generic cholesterol drugs off the market and thereby boost its own profits.
PLEASE DO YOURSELVES A FAVOR and read and understand more of what you are trying to support here.
Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/036417_Glaxo_Merck_fraud.html#ixzz22yxU4zLr
~~~~Cheers to hoping more people wake up and smell the coffee here... I want the world to feel as healthy and happy as I supremely do :-)
http://www.thinktwice.com/hepb.htm
DeletePretty sure all smart people who read what is in this website would cautiously opt out of HEP B.
Nah, I'm rather certain that anyone with any intellectual curiosity or critical thinking skills would immediately recognise that website as anti-vaxx propaganda.
The most poignant part is the story of the couple who lost their 5 week daughter 16 hours after receiving heb b shot. Science mom and Catherina are you going to say that this was a coincidence... or SIDS....? again i will say, it is your freedom to take the poision...
Correlation doesn't equal causation so yes, could very well be a coincidence and
this blogger brings some interesting information to light about the Belkins who refuse to release the medical report but we're all supposed to just take his word for it that the hep b vaccine was responsible. Again I will say, you're free to believe this rubbish but you will be criticised for it.
also, Catherina, i understood what nonsense you were talking about.... but what i want to ask you - what does mortality rates have to do with the growing number of problems facing children today? again... mortality rates measure only 1 year of an infants life. Vaccines continue to pile up for years! as do all the problems... ear infections, allergies, neurological problems etc.
Infant and childhood mortality has been reduced greatly due to vaccines. You really need to ask what this has to do with anything? Please provide studies for your claims if you can, I'm tired of your baseless assertions.
again, my son is an example of surviving (increasing mortality rates) because of the advancements in medical procedures. Not because of vaccines!! and yes.. that increases infant mortality.
Studies please because no, vaccines haven't increased infant mortality, just the opposite. And if you try to invoke Goldman well Catherina ripped his "study" to shreds along with other science bloggers. Now let me ask you this about your child's medical procedure. Did you demand studies from the surgeons that the procedure had been submitted to controlled trials for several years before being performed on your child? Why not?
*You gals have called me stupid with dumb observations -- perhaps you are just projecting! take a step back and think you could be letting ravenous corporate greed and mindless bureaucracy overwhelm your common sense... or maybe you are part of the corporate greed yourselfs >>>>>>>>>
Considering Catherina and I have been doing this on our own time, own dime and have been openly critical of many pharmaceutical practices and products, try that pharma shill accusation again and see where that gets you.
PLEASE DO YOURSELVES A FAVOR and read and understand more of what you are trying to support here.
Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/036417_Glaxo_Merck_fraud.html#ixzz22yxU4zLr
~~~~Cheers to hoping more people wake up and smell the coffee here... I want the world to feel as healthy and happy as I supremely do :-)
Oh gosh however would we have known about GSK without the "Health Ranger". Sweetie, when you actually get really advanced degrees then you can come back and discuss such issues without thinking you know it all from supremely stupid websites like Natural News. And it is supremely arrogant and ignorant of you to think you have a lock on good health because you don't vaccinate your child. It just shows how shallow your "learning" really is.
OOPS..
ReplyDeleteagain, my son is an example of surviving (increasing mortality rates) because of the advancements in medical procedures. Not because of vaccines!! and yes.. that increases infant mortality.
I meant to say DECREASING mortality rates. i was thinking immorality for some reason. in any case, yes it is fact that more children survive today...BRAVO to modern medicine, personally in the life saving surgery my son had to have when he was 2 days old. 50 years ago, he could have been one of the 25 who did not survive.
Your stupid question Science mom...
ReplyDeleteDid you demand studies from the surgeons that the procedure had been submitted to controlled trials for several years before being performed on your child? Why not?
Where have I ever led you to believe that I rely on scientific research to make my decisions. My son needed a life saving surgery, and because of advancements in science, he is here today, taking a direct hand in decreasing infant mortality. stop giving credit to your vaccines!
For you gals WHO need so called research to think for yourselves...Where is the solid evidence that babies, who get more than two-dozen doses of vaccines by age six months, are healthier as they grow up than those, who get fewer vaccines or no vaccines? No large, prospective studies have been done comparing the long-term health outcomes of children, who are vaccinated according to the CDC schedule, with those, who are not. I will again take my awesome intuition leading me to think for myself over your "research" conducted by the giant pharmaceuticals, coupled with law makers that are recipients of the deep pockets of these companies. they are the ones who use fear mongering tactics to sell more and more vaccines. Stop accusing Sue Reid and let her write about our debated topic here.. don't you see the conflict of interest with all your "research"?
well here in America, we are progressively challenging the bloated and expensive vaccine schedule and are telling doctors and legislators: "Show Us the Science, and Give Us the Choice." yes i took this from an anti vaccine website -- so what, get over it.
Your children may be healthy now, but you will never know how healthy they could be without all the toxins you are giving them. you Gals, have yet to answer my looming question - what is your explanation (don't care if it is scientific or not) of the growing number of neurological and other disorders? please..I would really love to know?? If your child or (someone you know), suddenly develops lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, or any other auto immune disorders later in life.. you may consider you lended a hand by inundating them with toxins.
so we are clear about the toxins: (to name a few) There is aluminum in Hep B... There are also trace or residual amounts of 2-phenoxyethanol, phenol, albumin, sucrose, lactose, MSG, glycine, formaldehyde, and antibiotics (neomycin) in vaccines. These are very small amounts, but do we want to continually inject even small amounts of these toxins directly into our tiny babies’ developing bodies, given their inability to detoxify and how vulnerable they are to low levels of toxins? If trace amounts of formaldehyde, MSG, or antibiotics were in foods that were to be given to our babies, most of us wouldn’t allow it. Yet, these toxins go directly into the baby’s bloodstream. Vaccines also can contain egg and yeast proteins. We delay giving our babies solid foods, mostly to avoid the proteins that can cause allergies. Why would we inject isolated proteins into their bodies at 2 months old?
Please understand, I am not in favor of any shots... so please stop criticizing my debate, saying i am not posting to the right blog or what does this have to do with MMR or whatever. I am speaking out against them all.
The Italian family received justice. the vaccine was the tipping point, full stop! and Italian court agrees.....THEY WON! :o)
Where have I ever led you to believe that I rely on scientific research to make my decisions. My son needed a life saving surgery, and because of advancements in science, he is here today, taking a direct hand in decreasing infant mortality. stop giving credit to your vaccines!
DeleteEmphasis mine. This is anti-vaxx comedy gold! Of course you would think mine was a stupid question, just re-read your response.
so we are clear about the toxins: (to name a few) There is aluminum in Hep B... There are also trace or residual amounts of 2-phenoxyethanol, phenol, albumin, sucrose, lactose, MSG, glycine, formaldehyde, and antibiotics (neomycin) in vaccines. These are very small amounts, but do we want to continually inject even small amounts of these toxins directly into our tiny babies’ developing bodies, given their inability to detoxify and how vulnerable they are to low levels of toxins?
Oh noes, sucrose and lactose are TOXIC!!! Infants are born with more aluminium than all the vaccines they get and we produce formaldehyde as a necessary metabolite and the rest aren't toxins either. Given your reliance on "intuition" rather than facts and boy does it show, your whole post is just crazy talk and really not worth commenting further on.
hahahaha! i just ventured on to other parts of your blog and came upon this from 3 years ago... looks like you have girls have not changed a bit!
ReplyDeleteThis is the first post I read, and I wanted to tactfully say that your responses on that forum do not cause readers to consider your viewpoints to be very valid when you share them by using what I'd call "fighting words." These would include such words as "infantile," "quack," "crackpot," "preposterous," nonsense," and the list goes on. People tend to read these words as attacks. When you say things to people that come across as sarcastic, like asking people, "So what's your point?" and by saying things such as this: "Welcome back, Bob - was there anything you actually wanted to blog about here? There is no real info in your write up, just your "jesting" (and a lot of "duh, I don't knows)..." - that really makes you come across as being angry and uncharitable, as do your implications that people are irresponsible by posting their own views and experiences ("There are undoubtedly extenuating circumstances here which you would be much more responsible posting"). I realize you have a passion for your viewpoints - why not try to express these views in a more charitable and gentle-spirited manner? It can be difficult when one is passionate about her beliefs, but really, all the readers on the Dr. Sears site are just trying to do what is best for their children and are searching for answers, and some of your word choices tend to put people on the defensive instead of helping them in their decision-making processes. Based on the comments above, it would seem that your word choices are at times off-putting to those on both sides of the debate.
I hope these words are received in the respectful spirit in which they were intended.
WELL SAID! I have never blogged about the topic until recently, and this persons comment from 3 years ago... expressed so eloquently exactly how I felt dealing with you and your comments! thought it deserved to be highlighted again!
Here is a pioneer in health! her website is insightful and awesome! yes it is an anecdotal story, one that you ladies could learn from, or perhaps you will be a statistical disease later in life. This woman took control of her unhealthy upbringing and is making healty life choices for her unvaccinated daughter! i love it
ReplyDeletehttp://foodforkidshealth.com/annikas-health-crisis-and-mission/
Vaccines are toxic, and so is your website
Vaccines are toxic, and so is your website
ReplyDeleteYou came here of your own volition, put on your big girl panties and deal with the criticism.
that is your comeback? are u afraid to answer the question about what is causing the rise in auto immune disorders and neurological problems? what do your sophisticated science chops tell you? I am hardly bothered by your criticism! just think its funny that she pointed out some things about your blog that I completely agreed with 3 years later! love how u blanket a different point of view always being anti vax propaganda and or crazy talk. still waiting for your answer
ReplyDeleteare u afraid to answer the question about what is causing the rise in auto immune disorders and neurological problems?
DeleteExcept you provided no proof that was occurring, and that vaccines are the cause. So, in a sense, you are being ignored because you are just babbling off the nonsense we have heard for years. And you do not get any bonus points for your creative spelling, grammar, choices of information, general insults and straying off the topic of this article.
Which is why Science Mom said: "your whole post is just crazy talk and really not worth commenting further on."
I am still curious to know SM''s answer ? what is she afraid of? research does not follow adverse affect of vaccines extensively... and that is the problem! so none of u really know what the ever growing number of vaccines do to a child! I love a debate and you do not have an answer that supports your dirty vaccines . not looking for points on spelling and grammar and yes I am pretty clever. thanks
ReplyDeleteWhat part of "your whole post is just crazy talk and really not worth commenting further on" did you find hard to understand?
DeleteYou're not debating; you're spewing spittle-flecked screeds with nary a proper citation to support your "intuition". Your poor grammar is probably the least of your worries right now.
Deleteyet u continue make comments. your mean spirit is not doing any favors for your website ... why don't u go to the playground and get your aggression out face to face with someone!
ReplyDeleteCatherina must be the more mature one of the lot of you. her silence is tall telling of that or maybe she has no real opinion of my points here. problems are mounting for babies and children... and toxic vaccines are one of the factors behind it. give someone an overload of bad substances --- it will eventually cause problems. you are fooling yourselves to believe differently. why are babies getting more shots today than they were even 20 years ago? still waiting for responses that defend your toxic vaccines.
ReplyDeletestill waiting for responses that defend your toxic vaccines.
ReplyDeleteKeep waiting; you're entirely uneducable. You're not interested in actually learning or obtaining information you didn't have; you're only interested in showcasing your desperate attempt to set yourself apart from "the herd". You're part of the lowest common denominator who wants shortcuts to feel special and important and with that, you have become a mockery of education and critical-thinking.
still waiting for your educated opinion or scientific answer. hope you will figure it out before your children become sick from all the jabs. my choices on the topic do not make me feel special and important, they make me feel healthy and responsible for my health. again, i do not wish sickness on anyone.... but if you do get some neurological or autoimmune problem down the road, dont forget to try to apply your science to the possiblity that vaccines are the culprit.
ReplyDeletehmm... looks like this is not the first time you have left this type of question go unanswered Science Mom!
ReplyDeleteMiddle Roader wrote
"Would you happen to know which vaxs are the same [dose], which are less for the infant and which are more for the infant?"Yes. Hep B is half the dose for infants as the adult dose. The pertussis and diphtheria portions are actually higher for infants (DTaP) than for adults (Tdap) hence the capitol v. small letters. Infants are naive to pertussis and diphtheria so they need a higher antigen concentration to achieve a protective antibody response. MMR is the same volume dose for infants and for adults because again, infants are naive to the antigens and need to mount a robust response. Whereas most adults have had an MMR already and another will allow them to mount an amnestic response. Same with varicella although Zostavax (for shingles) has 10x the concentration as the infant/adult dose because of the lowered response in older people. The same goes for IPV (polio). So yes, adults are actually getting an infant dose of some vaccines rather than the other way around. You can't look merely at the volume or concentration; you have to consider what is required for certain cohorts to achieve protection.
SM
Apr 28, 2012; 8:34pm Middle Roader
Thanks! I just emailed my friend and we shall see if how I put it made sense to her. One other thought that popped in my head while I was writing:
I've heard it said that an infant's immune system is immature, is that true?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Poor middle roader, after reading the spit up research of SM, she asked a very important question.....
I've heard it said that an infant's immune system is immature, is that true?
Where is your answer SM?
This is unbelievable~~~ Middle Roader asks:
ReplyDelete"But isn't this year's vaccine the same as last year's? I keep hearing this and so I would also wonder why you would need to repeat the shot this year. Or is this year's shot similar but not the same as last year's?"
Science Mom's response:
You don't really need to repeat the vaccine but uptake is encouraged to keep demand up for manufacturing purposes. Yes, I know. SM *insert childish frown face here*
OH MY LORD! did you read your response SM!!... ridiculous! that was your closing remark that followed a bunch of regurgitated "research" concluding :These are the same virus strains that the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) selected for inclusion in the Northern Hemisphere vaccine being used in the United States during the 2010-2011 season.
manufacturing purposes... what are the drug makers going to go out of business if we do not adhere to the crappy recommendations from the FDA!!!!!!!!!!!! so again... add up the toxins! still waiting for your answers and so is middle roader. In case you are not sure what the questions are...
1) I've heard it said that an infant's immune system is immature, is that true? (middle roader)
2) what is causing the rise in auto immune disorders and neurological problems? (anonymous)
Anon - I am on vacation and must say, on cursory read, I don't think I will answer you when I am back. Your posts are too incoherent, have too many wild claims and too many !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteso that's your excuse for not answering 2 simple questions? this is LAME
ReplyDeletelife is pretty precious and i get excited about it... sorry you can't handle all the !!!!!
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteThat is why we protect our children from diseases. Something that Roald Dahl was not able to do for one of his oldest child.
DeleteIf you have any real verifiable data that the MMR vaccine is more dangerous than measles, mumps and rubella: please present it. And do use real citations and not cut/paste screeds from random websites.
Anonymous, I can't even follow along with your incoherent drivelling either. I don't know what Middle Roader has to do with this but if she has something she would like to talk to me about, she can and knows how to. She is a lovely, smart woman so please leave her out of your screeds. It makes you look even more pathetic.
ReplyDeleteThanks for papers Chris. I will read the full papers, also i am doing more review (e.g. mitochondrial diseases vaccines connection, if there are any, i have found some papers last year, so i will give you know asap)
ReplyDeleteBut looks like that generally "Wakefield" has prevented research into the vaccine safety despite the increase of vaccines administred to infants in US.
You know, this is not only ASD what was suspect, but many, many other diseases.
E.g. Consider possibility that any kid or your kid was immunologically damaged with vaccines and then with damaged immune system thereof contracted an infectious disease or developed any autoimmune disease. This is really serious. This is not anti-vax, but vaccine safety.
Also give you know on the quality of those papers (especially from vaccine journal). Hope i wont be deleted/censored on this blog.
Vaccine. 2012 Jun 13;30(28):4292-8. Epub 2012 Apr 20.
The combined measles, mumps, and rubella vaccines and the total number of vaccines are not associated with development of autism spectrum disorder: The first case-control study in Asia.
Vaccine. 2012 Jan 5;30(2):247-53.
Lack of association between childhood immunizations and encephalitis in California, 1998-2008.
Pediatrics Vol. 126 No. 2 August 1, 2010 (doi: 10.1542/peds.2009-1496)
Lack of Association Between Acellular Pertussis Vaccine and Seizures in Early Childhood
BMC Public Health. 2011 May 19;11:340.
Congenital rubella syndrome and autism spectrum disorder prevented by rubella vaccination--United States, 2001-2010.
Pediatrics. 2010 Jun;125(6):1134-41.
On-time vaccine receipt in the first year does not adversely affect neuropsychological outcomes.
Pediatr Infect Dis J. 2010 May;29(5):397-400.
Lack of association between measles-mumps-rubella vaccination and autism in children: a case-control study.
Pediatrics. 2009 Jun;123(6):1446-51.
Parental refusal of pertussis vaccination is associated with an increased risk of pertussis infection in children.
Pediatrics, February 2009, Vol. 123(2):475-82
Neuropsychological Performance 10 years after Immunization in Infancy with Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines
Am J Epidemiol. 2008 Dec 15;168(12):1389-96. Epub 2008 Oct 15.
Geographic clustering of nonmedical exemptions to school immunization requirements and associations with geographic clustering of pertussis.
PLoS ONE 2008; 3(9): e3140 doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0003140
Lack of Association between Measles Virus Vaccine and Autism with Enteropathy: A Case-Control Study.
Pediatrics. 2007 Nov;120(5):e1269-77.
Is childhood vaccination associated with asthma? A meta-analysis of observational studies.
Vaccine. 2007 Jun 21;25(26):4875-9. Epub 2007 Mar 16.
Do immunisations reduce the risk for SIDS? A meta-analysis.
Pediatr Infect Dis J. 2006 Sep;25(9):768-73.
Encephalopathy after whole-cell pertussis or measles vaccination: lack of evidence for a causal association in a retrospective case-control study.
J Infect Dis. 2005 Nov 15;192(10):1686-93. Epub 2005 Oct 12.
Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis: more cases of this fatal disease are prevented by measles immunization than was previously recognized.
Arch Pediatr Adolesc Med. 2005;159:1136-1144.
Economic Evaluation of the 7-Vaccine Routine Childhood Immunization Schedule in the United States, 2001
Pediatr Infect Dis J. 2002 Jun;21(6):498-504.
Childhood vaccinations and risk of asthma.
Pediatrics. 2001 Dec;108(6):E112
Childhood vaccinations, vaccination timing, and risk of type 1 diabetes mellitus.
JAMA. 2000 Dec 27;284(24):3145-50.
Individual and community risks of measles and pertussis associated with personal exemptions to immunization.
I will read the full papers, also i am doing more review (e.g. mitochondrial diseases vaccines connection, if there are any, i have found some papers last year, so i will give you know asap)
DeleteAnd when you are done, submit your paper this conference:
http://www.vaccinecongress.com/
If you are a real scientist you will know how to write a paper and get it published.
I only delete links with no commentary as they look like spam. I don't delete citation lists that appear in a comment like yours.
ReplyDelete