Friday, August 10, 2012

The Best Anti-Vaccine Comment Ever!

We recently got an anonymous commentor on the Sue Reid propagates MMR Manufactuversy in the Daily Mail post.  She, by far, represents everything that is so wrong  with anti-vaxx dogma and offers a chilling glimpse into the tortured, erratic, absurd and obtuse mind that latches onto vaccine disinformation.
Anonymous first stated:
my son survived because a life saving surgery to fix his colon has been introduced. 50 years ago, he would not have survived!
I then asked:
Now let me ask you this about your child's medical procedure. Did you demand studies from the surgeons that the procedure had been submitted to controlled trials for several years before being performed on your child? Why not?
And then came this from Anonymous (in its glorious, grammar-addled entirety):
Your stupid question Science mom...
Did you demand studies from the surgeons that the procedure had been submitted to controlled trials for several years before being performed on your child? Why not?

Where have I ever led you to believe that I rely on scientific research to make my decisions. My son needed a life saving surgery, and because of advancements in science, he is here today, taking a direct hand in decreasing infant mortality. stop giving credit to your vaccines!
For you gals WHO need so called research to think for yourselves...Where is the solid evidence that babies, who get more than two-dozen doses of vaccines by age six months, are healthier as they grow up than those, who get fewer vaccines or no vaccines? No large, prospective studies have been done comparing the long-term health outcomes of children, who are vaccinated according to the CDC schedule, with those, who are not. I will again take my awesome intuition leading me to think for myself over your "research" conducted by the giant pharmaceuticals, coupled with law makers that are recipients of the deep pockets of these companies. they are the ones who use fear mongering tactics to sell more and more vaccines. Stop accusing Sue Reid and let her write about our debated topic here.. don't you see the conflict of interest with all your "research"?

well here in America, we are progressively challenging the bloated and expensive vaccine schedule and are telling doctors and legislators: "Show Us the Science, and Give Us the Choice." yes i took this from an anti vaccine website -- so what, get over it.
Your children may be healthy now, but you will never know how healthy they could be without all the toxins you are giving them. you Gals, have yet to answer my looming question - what is your explanation (don't care if it is scientific or not) of the growing number of neurological and other disorders? please..I would really love to know?? If your child or (someone you know), suddenly develops lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, or any other auto immune disorders later in life.. you may consider you lended a hand by inundating them with toxins.

so we are clear about the toxins: (to name a few) There is aluminum in Hep B... There are also trace or residual amounts of 2-phenoxyethanol, phenol, albumin, sucrose, lactose, MSG, glycine, formaldehyde, and antibiotics (neomycin) in vaccines. These are very small amounts, but do we want to continually inject even small amounts of these toxins directly into our tiny babies’ developing bodies, given their inability to detoxify and how vulnerable they are to low levels of toxins? If trace amounts of formaldehyde, MSG, or antibiotics were in foods that were to be given to our babies, most of us wouldn’t allow it. Yet, these toxins go directly into the baby’s bloodstream. Vaccines also can contain egg and yeast proteins. We delay giving our babies solid foods, mostly to avoid the proteins that can cause allergies. Why would we inject isolated proteins into their bodies at 2 months old?
Please understand, I am not in favor of any shots... so please stop criticizing my debate, saying i am not posting to the right blog or what does this have to do with MMR or whatever. I am speaking out against them all.

The Italian family received justice. the vaccine was the tipping point, full stop! and Italian court agrees.....THEY WON! :o)
These bear repeating more than I can say:
"Where have I ever led you to believe that I rely on scientific research to make my decisions."
"For you gals WHO need so called research to think for yourselves..."
"I will again take my awesome intuition leading me to think for myself over your "research" conducted by the giant pharmaceuticals, coupled with law makers that are recipients of the deep pockets of these companies."
She don't need no steenkin science, she's got her awesome...
INTUITION
But but but then goes on to say:
well here in America, we are progressively challenging the bloated and expensive vaccine schedule and are telling doctors and legislators: "Show Us the Science, and Give Us the Choice." yes i took this from an anti vaccine website -- so what, get over it.
And this is it, my sublime epiphany.  Oh sure many others have identified and analysed the incongruity, hypocrisy and flat-out deception that embody anti-vaxx diatribes.  But for me, this comment is an unmitigated exposition of what we are dealing with and why we will never, ever be able to proffer any study, any explanation or any debate good enough for them to accept what is so antithetical to their awesome...
I N T U I T I O N
I have no good answers to combat this and I am left to continue to speculate on the state of education in the United States that people such as Anonymous can find their way onto the internets and make comments like this in earnest.  Regardless, it is cathartic to achieve this realisation and I will continue to pillory and counter anti-vaccine disinformation as long as I care to.

128 comments:

  1. Comedy gold. Or it would be, if it wasn't representative of a mindset that is costing lives.

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  2. so what about the lives cost by adverse reactions to vaccines.... why are you ingnoring those? or the misrepresentation of the efficacy of vaccines. you are supporting corporte greed here... not health! your website is comedy, and trust me.... no one is hurt by your mean-spirited comments.

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    1. There are very few serious adverse reactions with vaccines. Where are the misrepresentations of the efficiency of vaccines? The only place I have seen that is by antivax people.

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    2. so what about the lives cost by adverse reactions to vaccines.... why are you ingnoring those?

      Who says we are ignoring those? That's a strawman argument. Here is just one example of vaccine adverse events:http://www.iom.edu/Reports/2011/Adverse-Effects-of-Vaccines-Evidence-and-Causality.aspx

      And based upon hundreds of studies and case reports. We just don't accept every caterwauling tale of "vaccine injury" just because it's on the interwebz.

      or the misrepresentation of the efficacy of vaccines.

      Check on PubMed for that too; there is constant monitoring of vaccine efficacy and effectiveness. Cochrane Systematic Reviews have many on the subject. All hidden in plain sight.

      you are supporting corporte greed here... not health!

      Very few vaccines are money makers for pharmaceutical companies. While I'm outspoken and critical of glaring examples of pharma misdeeds, that doesn't mean I throw the baby out with the bathwater and am appreciative of the oversight and support even more. So-called natural remedies and supplements have no oversight and are constantly contaminated with crap and spiked with real drugs.

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    3. Corporate greed?

      What is more profitable, a few vaccines or the meds to treat the diseases vaccines prevent?

      If it was, as you claim, all about the money, there would be no vaccines, just extremely expensive treatments.

      Delete
  3. you dont have a answer to my question yet SM, so you are trying to distract with your kindergarten like, colorful comments on my health conscious mindset!

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  4. how healthy are you science mom? how many colds do you get a year... and how often to you get the flu? and your children - would really like to know?

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    1. My children are fully vaccinated and my son has never had the flu and gets sick about once every five years. My girls get a cold maybe once every 1-2 years and have had the flu very rarely.

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    2. I'm extremely healthy as are my children; we rarely get colds/illnesses and when we do get sick we are over it quickly. We have a great diet (I'm an avid gardener), we are active and athletic and aren't couch potatoes and we are vaccinated.

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  5. Anonymous, you would be taken more seriously if you actually supported your claims with verifiable scientific documentation. Perhaps you should actually read the things with an open mind, and not just intuition. Which is probably why there is this huge error in your statement: " Yet, these toxins go directly into the baby’s bloodstream." Can you figure what it is?

    Let me help you with some examples. Some may answer your questions, you just have to find them on PubMed... and do tell us exactly which ones are done by Big Pharma:

    Vaccine. 2012 Jun 13;30(28):4292-8. Epub 2012 Apr 20.
    The combined measles, mumps, and rubella vaccines and the total number of vaccines are not associated with development of autism spectrum disorder: The first case-control study in Asia.

    Vaccine. 2012 Jan 5;30(2):247-53.
    Lack of association between childhood immunizations and encephalitis in California, 1998-2008.

    Pediatrics Vol. 126 No. 2 August 1, 2010 (doi: 10.1542/peds.2009-1496)
    Lack of Association Between Acellular Pertussis Vaccine and Seizures in Early Childhood

    BMC Public Health. 2011 May 19;11:340.
    Congenital rubella syndrome and autism spectrum disorder prevented by rubella vaccination--United States, 2001-2010.

    Pediatrics. 2010 Jun;125(6):1134-41.
    On-time vaccine receipt in the first year does not adversely affect neuropsychological outcomes.

    Pediatr Infect Dis J. 2010 May;29(5):397-400.
    Lack of association between measles-mumps-rubella vaccination and autism in children: a case-control study.

    Pediatrics. 2009 Jun;123(6):1446-51.
    Parental refusal of pertussis vaccination is associated with an increased risk of pertussis infection in children.

    Pediatrics, February 2009, Vol. 123(2):475-82
    Neuropsychological Performance 10 years after Immunization in Infancy with Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines

    Am J Epidemiol. 2008 Dec 15;168(12):1389-96. Epub 2008 Oct 15.
    Geographic clustering of nonmedical exemptions to school immunization requirements and associations with geographic clustering of pertussis.

    PLoS ONE 2008; 3(9): e3140 doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0003140
    Lack of Association between Measles Virus Vaccine and Autism with Enteropathy: A Case-Control Study.

    Pediatrics. 2007 Nov;120(5):e1269-77.
    Is childhood vaccination associated with asthma? A meta-analysis of observational studies.

    Vaccine. 2007 Jun 21;25(26):4875-9. Epub 2007 Mar 16.
    Do immunisations reduce the risk for SIDS? A meta-analysis.

    Pediatr Infect Dis J. 2006 Sep;25(9):768-73.
    Encephalopathy after whole-cell pertussis or measles vaccination: lack of evidence for a causal association in a retrospective case-control study.

    J Infect Dis. 2005 Nov 15;192(10):1686-93. Epub 2005 Oct 12.
    Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis: more cases of this fatal disease are prevented by measles immunization than was previously recognized.

    Arch Pediatr Adolesc Med. 2005;159:1136-1144.
    Economic Evaluation of the 7-Vaccine Routine Childhood Immunization Schedule in the United States, 2001

    Pediatr Infect Dis J. 2002 Jun;21(6):498-504.
    Childhood vaccinations and risk of asthma.

    Pediatrics. 2001 Dec;108(6):E112
    Childhood vaccinations, vaccination timing, and risk of type 1 diabetes mellitus.

    JAMA. 2000 Dec 27;284(24):3145-50.
    Individual and community risks of measles and pertussis associated with personal exemptions to immunization.

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  6. American and long-time lurker here... I just heard on the radio yesterday that only 30% of US 8th graders are considered "proficient" in science. (source: http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/pubs/main2011/2012465.asp). Sadly, this is an improvement from 2009. So, that is the state of science education in the US. Speculate no longer; it's possibly even more horrible than you imagined. :(

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    1. Thanks (I think) for that stat Maria; you're right, it's even worse than I thought.

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    2. That is disturbing! What is considered "proficient"?

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    3. According to the source I listed above, here are a few things that an 8th grader "proficient" in science would be able to do:
      --Recognize that plants produce their own food
      --Describe the competition between two species
      --Identify a function of a human organ system
      --Investigate the magnetic properties of some common objects

      (There are more examples at the site.)

      Only 54% of students correctly answered the question "What atoms combine to make up a molecule of water?"

      Sigh.

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  7. more numbers, more numbers. Still what is your ANSWER TO THE RISE IN PROBLEMS!?

    It’s been declared that today’s children are the first generation whose parents will outlive them. Today, 10% of Canadian children have life threatening afflictions. In the last 25 years, concurrent with vaccine increase, there’ve been huge declines in children’s health in many categories:

    •Autism – increased over 1000 times in less than one generation; at least 1/88 in USA
    •Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) – 10%
    •Learning Disability – 1/6
    •Severe Mood Dysregulation (eg bipolar disorder) – 1/30
    •Ear Infections – 50% of Canadian 2-3 yr olds since birth
    •All types of Allergies – increased six times since 1980
    •Anaphylactic Food Allergies – doubled in the last decade
    •Allergic Eczema – 1/5
    •Asthma – 1/8 or more; 10% of Canadians 2-7 yrs old
    •Obesity – tripled since 1980; 25% of Canadian children overweight or obese
    •Juvenile Diabetes – more than 100% increase since 1980
    Vaccinations may cause significantly more injuries and deaths than they prevent.
    The medical establishment considers vaccines effective if they suppress a few targeted illnesses – but at what expense? An emerging body of evidence indicates that vaccines can damage a child’s developing immune system and brain, leading to life-threatening or debilitating disorders like autism, ADHD, asthma, peanut allergy, juvenile diabetes, etc or to SIDS, death itself. If this is true, the number of vaccine-related deaths per year outnumbers deaths from so-called “vaccine-preventable” illnesses.

    Historical trends show that deaths caused by illnesses targeted by vaccines had already declined by as much as 98% before mass vaccination programs for them began. Statistical tampering and incomplete and selective reporting over the last sixty years has made vaccination appear more effective than it truly is. For instance, the seemingly dramatic decline in polio cases after introduction of polio vaccine coincided with a change in diagnostic criteria from paralysis lasting 24 hrs or more to paralysis lasting at least 60 days. Polio incidence actually increased after vaccine was introduced; the oral polio vaccine became the sole cause of paralytic polio in North America until it was discontinued here.

    ... more to follow

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    1. The people making the claims about the illnesses targeted by vaccines are the ones that are statistical tampering. Also, yes the oral polio vaccine can mutate back to the wild type strain in 1 in a million doses. That is proof positive that the polio vaccine works when the only polio around is from the vaccine. As for the rest, there is no correlation between any of those things and vaccines. Also, learning disability diagnosis are down because of all the more specific categories. Vaccines could not damage anyone's immune system they work in the same way as naturally acquiring antigens.

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  8. ...contiuned

    Vaccine injuries are drastically underreported. Although there is a government system in place for reporting vaccine reactions and injuries, most incidents go unreported. Doctors, who naturally do not want to admit to participating in a practice that injures a child, often choose to deny or disregard even the most obvious connection between a sudden health issue and vaccination. As a result, it is believed that fewer than 10% of vaccine injuries are actually reported; it’s impossible to know exactly how many children are injured each year.

    Vaccines damage the immune system. A healthy immune system has two main parts, Th1 and Th2. Th1 leads with the first and most important immune response, to sense and eliminate incoming disease-associated organisms and particles. Th2 then creates antibodies and a memory of the disease. Babies are born with immature immune systems in which Th2 dominates. As their immune systems mature, dominance switches permanently to Th1. Usually, infectious agents enter the body through the nose and mouth, triggering Th1 which normally combats them effectively. But vaccines injected into the body bypass Th1 and over-stimulate Th2. This confuses the normal maturation and skews the functioning of the immune system; Th2 becomes dominant and the crucial Th1, suppressed. The result can be autoimmune disease (eg juvenile diabetes), allergic disorders (eg eczema, asthma and life threatening anaphylactic allergies to everyday foods like peanuts) and frequent infections (eg colds and ear infections).

    VACCINATIONS ARE BASED ON FEAR
    Vaccination ignores our evolutionary history. We have survived in co-habitation with multitudes of germs. There’s a balance between immune enhancement and immune depletion. We can encourage the former by acknowledging the power and competence of our bodies to heal themselves.

    Those administering vaccines rarely, if ever, provide full information on the vaccines being injected; they exaggerate risks of infection and don’t explain that vaccines may be just as risky or worse.

    Maria, SC and Chris.... HOW Horrible! your fear will not even allow you to think out side of your scientific box!

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    1. Provide citations; if you want to argue science then that's how it's done, not by your intuition rules.

      Maria, SC and Chris.... HOW Horrible! your fear will not even allow you to think out side of your scientific box!

      It's not fear you twit, it's knowledge. You know you aren't special; parenting isn't a competition sport. You're not a great mummy because you are anti-vaxx; that's just some stupid stance you adopted because you think it makes you better. Well it doesn't, just makes you foolish and puts your children and others at risk. There aren't shortcuts in learning.

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    2. Wow! I have never seen so much nonsense in one post. You should actually learn a little bit about this subject before you try to debate it. Nothing you wrote is even remotely correct.

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    3. HOW Horrible! your fear will not even allow you to think out side of your scientific box!

      It is not fear, it is experience and knowing science. My son is permanently disabled from seizures suffered from a now vaccine preventable disease, and we all suffered for a month when the three kids got chicken pox a year before the vaccine was available. That included a six month old baby who could have lost her vision if the pox got closer to her eyes.

      Vaccination ignores our evolutionary history. We have survived in co-habitation with multitudes of germs. There’s a balance between immune enhancement and immune depletion.

      That is a ridiculous statement, you should avoid any site with that drivel (and it has been posted in many sites). It ignores history, and how we have transformed our environment. Things have changed in just the 20th century: At the beginning of the 20th century, for every 1000 live births, six to nine women in the United States died of pregnancy-related complications, and approximately 100 infants died before age 1 year (1,2). From 1915 through 1997, the infant mortality rate declined greater than 90% to 7.2 per 1000 live births, and from 1900 through 1997, the maternal mortality rate declined almost 99% to less than 0.1 reported death per 1000 live births (7.7 deaths per 100,000 live births in 1997).

      Now, stop being close minded and learn how to accept new information. There is nothing to fear from knowledge of math, science and history.

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    4. Juvenile diabetes is an autoimmune disease? I didn't know that.

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    5. MR, Type 1 is autoimmune and is often (but not accurately) referred to as juvenile diabetes. Type 2 is more common. Here are some basics: http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/

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    6. And Type 1 diabetes was killing kids early in the 20th century. So no real relationship with vaccines. I recently read a fascinating book on that, which included biographies of the Canadian researchers who found ways to get insulin, a "brave maverick" doctor whose starvation diet kept some kids alive and some of the first children to get insulin: Breakthrough: Elizabeth Hughes, the Discovery of Insulin, and the Making of a Medical Miracle.

      This is one reason why brave Ms. Anonymous should add reading history to help open her mind. She might actually learn something!

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  9. still waiting for your answers SM? dont have one do you! apparantly NOT, as you left middle roader and myself waiting for the impact your unnecessary vaccines have on a person's immune system. are you healthy? if so, congrats to your strong immune system!

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  10. I along with Chris gave you many citations for you to read; the IOM report is full text. So I suggest you get on that or not because I'm not going to tell you what you want to hear, only what you should hear.

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  11. Anonymous, all you've done is prove you're only capable of cutting/pasting a gish gallop of erroneous information regarding vaccines.

    The anti-vax camp is so short sighted - it MUST be the vaccines.. it can NEVER be anything other than the vaccines.

    The amount of cadmium (Cd) which has been released into the environment has also increased in the last 30 years. Ergo; Cd causes autism, global warming, and the rise in gas prices.

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  12. Anonymous...It is customary on blogs to credit your sources...instead of copying and pasting. Why haven't you done that?

    Here's the anti-vaccine website that "Anonymous" neglected to source:

    http://vran.org/about-vaccines/vaccine-essentials/vaccination-the-basics/

    Anonymous...why not visit some reliable websites to make your decisions about vaccines. Your one source is a joke.

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  13. I guess INTUITION trumps the millions of deaths caused by vaccine preventable diseases during the years before vaccine. Geesh. Vaccines are simply victims of their own success. Parents who have never seen the horrors of polio or their babies die from whooping cough think their INTUITION is not only better than science - it's better than what history tells us. Geesh. Their unvaccinated children are protected by the herd immunity afforded the majority of children whose parents understand they are protecting their children with the most effective means ever to prevent disease. The more anti-vaxx parents there are, however, the more vaccine preventable diseases and needless childhood deaths we will see...and who's fault is that? If my newborn (not yet old enough to receive all the vaccines) dies because she is exposed to a sick child of one of these idiot INTUITIVE parent, I'm not going to say what my intuition tells me to do!

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  14. good luck dealing with the mounting toxins in your vaccines as well as the additional ones coming from the environment. SM, that is awesome that you garden and your family is healthy. I don't think parenting is a competition and I do respect your choice to vaccinate. I have had these beliefs long before the Internet was around and do not need to give credit to some website to emphasize my opinion. I love how passionately defensive your responses have been. cheers to you all wishing you health and happiness!

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    1. Can you tell us which of those "vaccine toxins" are worse than tetanospasmin?

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  15. good luck dealing with the mounting toxins in your vaccines as well as the additional ones coming from the environment. SM, that is awesome that you garden and your family is healthy.

    Sadly, I can actually read this; I hope to hell you don't homeschool. No luck required, we have functioning livers and kidneys and the brains to know what to avoid. You on the other hand think that because you avoid vaccines, you are eliminating "toxins" from your exposure list and given what I have witnessed of your "intelligence" are probably exposing yourselves to more crap than I ever could.

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  16. Replies
    1. No, seriously. Tell us what in a vaccine is more toxic than tetanospasmin? Or to help you... tell us what in the vaccine is more toxic than pertussis toxin or diphtheria toxin.

      Come on, you are going on about the toxins in the vaccines, you could at least give us the courtesy to compare them to the toxins created by the real diseases. So, do tell us exactly how much more dangerous the "toxins" in the DTaP vaccine are worse than the toxins created by the bacteria that cause diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis.

      Delete
  17. Anonymous does not like to be called out for all the copy pasta she posted here from an anti-vaccine website. She replied to me with this "ludicrous" statement:

    "I have had these beliefs long before the Internet was around and do not need to give credit to some website to emphasize my opinion."

    How dishonest and disingenuous of you, Anonymous.

    Beliefs you say! How is that any different than beliefs in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy? You know "mommy intuition" does not take the place of your becoming knowledgeable about vaccines and the serious, sometimes deadly, diseases vaccines prevent.

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  18. I care little about what any of you think about mt cutting and pasting. stop pointing fingers at my right to opt out. if your vaccines actually worked .. being near an unvaccinated child should hardly matter. we could rub shoulders in your world and you would not even know it.
    what are your thoughts in why they continue to come up with more and more vaccines? why is this healthy. things got way better in overall health before many were introduced. please elaborate with your unscientific opinion or thoughts - if that is at all possible?

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    1. if your vaccines actually worked .. being near an unvaccinated child should hardly matter.

      So what is your plan to protect babies under age one from measles, etc? Why do you think a vaccine should work before the child actually gets it?

      Some who caught measles in San Diego were: four additional children (rash onset: February 6--10) who had been in the pediatrician's office on January 25 at the same time as the index patient. Among these latter four patients, three were infants aged less than 12 months. One of the three infants was hospitalized for 2 days for dehydration; another infant traveled by airplane to Hawaii on February 9 while infectious.

      So if your non-vaccinated child is sick, are you going to avoid going to a medical clinic? Or go anyway, and then blame the parents of the babies your child infects for daring to get well baby checks.

      Anonymous continues: things got way better in overall health before many were introduced. please elaborate with your unscientific opinion or thoughts - if that is at all possible?

      Have you even clicked on any of my links? Have you ever read any history, or any actual literature? How much better did Roald Dahl's oldest child get from measles? How much better did Henry David Thoreau's brother, John, do when he got tetanus? How well did the children in Nome, AK do when they got diphtheria (why there is an Iditorod Dog Race)? What does measles have to do with the Whitman Massacre? Why did 90% of the native peoples of all of the Americas disappear in less than two centuries? (see these books: Guns, Germs and Steel, 1492, 1493, and Plagues and Peoples)

      Now, answer my question: What toxins in the DTaP vaccine more more toxic than tetanospasmin, pertussis toxin or diphtheria toxin?

      Delete
  19. as you continue to make assumptions about me - i am a healthy 40 year old. I work in a highly populated place coming in contact with 2000 people on a daily basis. some refer to it as a petry dish of sorts in regards to germs. I have never had the flu or flu shot. I take care of myself in a holistic, natural approach. I am not afraid to come in co tact with a sick person. have travelled to 27 countries and love life! I believe in going to a doctor when something needs fixing. I even had reconstruction surgery on a sports injury at 30, enabling me to play at middle age. I wrestled with taking required vaccines before a work trip to Africa when I was 26. In the following months I had acne for the first time in my life and I developed seasonal allergies. i never got yellow fever or typhoid and I will never know if I would have developed the minor disturbances of adult acne and allergies had I opted out. feel free to make general insults - i dont expect you to have a clue to who i am as a person. I stand by my choices regardless of your criticism.

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    1. I am not making assumptions about you not answering a question. Do try again: What toxins in the DTaP vaccine more more toxic than tetanospasmin, pertussis toxin or diphtheria toxin?

      Delete
    2. I have had these beliefs long before the Internet was around and do not need to give credit to some website to emphasize my opinion.

      So you were stupid before the internets, you want a cookie?

      I wrestled with taking required vaccines before a work trip to Africa when I was 26. In the following months I had acne for the first time in my life and I developed seasonal allergies. i never got yellow fever or typhoid and I will never know if I would have developed the minor disturbances of adult acne and allergies had I opted out.

      Aaaaand it couldn't possibly have anything to do with the environmental exposures in Africa and/or just physiological changes now would it?

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    3. You were lucky. Do you want a cookie.

      I have been vaccinated for yellow fever, typhus and typhoid. But, yet, I still got dengue fever while living in South America.

      Stuff happens, and it has nothing whether or not you got a vaccine. By the way, there is no vaccine for dengue fever.

      And yet... no answer to this question from you: What ingredients in the DTaP vaccine are more more toxic than tetanospasmin, pertussis toxin or diphtheria toxin?

      You keep telling us what to think. At least give us the courtesy of letting us know how much you know.

      Delete
  20. catherina i omitted !!!!! just for you, if you are still reading :-)

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  21. Yes Chris, I take my baby to all his regular well baby checks to our pediatrition who does not push or criticize me. he fully examines my son. I would never blame anyone but myself for my sons health. perhaps you should start doing the same.

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  22. as my son is healthy at 8 months going from 25%( after having a rough start) to 90% for height and weight - there is no blaming my self. i take credit for making healthy choices for my son!

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    1. So you are okay if your child infects an infant too young to get certain vaccines. You are making health choices for other children by spreading infections.

      You just don't seem to understand that babies are not fully protected, and that some people depend on herd immunity.

      And thanks for confirming that you neither click on the links I have provided, nor even read what I have written. And that includes the part of the paragraph I quoted about the 2008 San Diego measles outbreak. Let me repeat if for you, with added bolding: The child with measles infected four additional children (rash onset: February 6--10) who had been in the pediatrician's office on January 25 at the same time as the index patient. Among these latter four patients, three were infants aged less than 12 months. One of the three infants was hospitalized for 2 days for dehydration; another infant traveled by airplane to Hawaii on February 9 while infectious.

      You may think you are a good parent, but you are really a selfish special little snowflake who does not care about anyone else.

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  23. No, the child was not vaccinated. And yes, the MMR is very effective for measles. Nothing is perfect, so don't evoke the Nirvana Fallacy.

    How come you cannot seem to read the link to the article when I first mentioned it? Did you not realize there was an embedded link? This is a link to the outbreak report, hover your mouse over this sentence and notice how it changes, then click on it and read it! Now, again, read it and see how someone's very special little snowflake made lots of people very sick.

    Here is another link about the story, it is an NPR radio show you can listen to online: Ruining it for the Rest of Us. Click on the title and then click on the box that says "Launch Player."

    Here is the synopsis: Measles cases are higher in the U.S. than they've been in a decade, mostly because more and more nervous parents are refusing to vaccinate their kids. Contributing Editor Susan Burton tells the story of what happened recently in San Diego, when an unvaccinated 7-year-old boy returned home from a trip to Switzerland, bringing with him the measles. By the end of the ordeal, 11 other children caught the disease, and more than 60 kids had to be quarantined. (22 minutes)

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  24. It sounds like you are the nervous one. I read the CDC article long before your time wasting sentence link. I still think it is better for my child not to vaccinate.
    below is taken from an interview my Doctor participated on a local radio program.
    ----------------------------------------------
    When I was at the Blue Cross meeting about two years ago, they were looking at why our practice had such a low incidence of asthma. The average rate of asthma in the HMO here in X state was about 12% in children. And they had a very good definition of asthma – it was two emergency room visits, or one hospitalization. So you can’t fudge on it, as such. And we had one case out of a thousand children. And they said to me “why is that” and I said “well, because we’re great doctors”, and they says “come on, Dr X, we know the truth”. This was scary, this was really scary, “.it’s because you don’t vaccinate, isn’t it?” How frightening is that?
    --------------------------------------------
    people die from asthma... In 2009 asthma caused 250,000 deaths globally.

    I will continue to avoid vaccines, as will many other parents. It is our right.... here is a mother who changed her highly held belief about the safety and effectiveness of vaccines after her son was injured from a vaccine.
    " Science is reproducible, it’s verifiable, and its never closed to question. And what happens with vaccination is that it is not proven, it is not scientific, and we are told by mainstream western medical doctors, by the government, that there is no question about vaccination. We are told that there is no vaccination debate because vaccination is proven. And what I started to find out, and I felt very betrayed when I started to do this research, because I believe strongly in science, I mean, I guess I was a fan of science for a very long time, and I still am. I think that the science of vaccination is what we need to be debating, not the emotion, and certainly not the way that people are being treated if they even ask a question about vaccination. Why should people be treated as pariahs for saying “I have my doubts and I need to find the proof first”. That’s what medical science is supposed to be all about and that’s what's left out in vaccination.

    More and more people are questioning your science, and I am so happy that i have a doctor who will allow me to make an informed decision.
    one more cut and pasted quote from my doctor....
    -------------------------------------------------
    So, if we take our roles really seriously as advocates for our children to make sure that their health is protected, and as activists in our community to make sure that our rights as Americans, as Australians, as people living in a free society are also protected, then this situation will be solved. And that’s the only way that it’s going to be solved. The media’s not going to do it, the biggest purchasers of advertising in the developed world are pharmaceutical and chemical companies, and in the majority the media will not cover this issue fairly. They are very biased towards whoever buys the most advertising. So, the media’s not going to do it, the mainstream medical community is certainly not going to do it because they believe that what they are doing is right, and they are also getting paid to believe that. The governments not going to do it. Pharmaceutical companies – there are two pharmaceutical lobbyists for every member of congress. And they spend hundreds of millions of dollars every year making sure that legislation gets put through that will benefit them. The swine flu vaccine, they’ve already passed legislation to say that if anyone is injured or killed by the vaccine, neither the government, nor the pharmaceutical companies, will be held responsible. You’re on your own. So that would not happen if it wasn’t for all those pharmaceutical lobbyists.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I still think it is better for my child not to vaccinate.

      And why do you think we really about what you think? You have presented no real evidence, have stated things that are untrue, do not care about others and have now cut and pasted stuff from someone that is spouting nonsense.

      Seriously, why should we care about what you think? What makes you so special?

      Delete
  25. Just want to tell you that my doctor and his followers are not a bunch of crazy people. they are healthy happy people who are making informed decisions that they feel good about!
    So again, wishing YOU all heath and happiness! this is not a competition, it is a right!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If you are all so informed why won't you answer this question: What ingredients in the DTaP vaccine are more more toxic than tetanospasmin, pertussis toxin or diphtheria toxin?

      Delete
  26. Just want to tell you that my doctor and his followers are not a bunch of crazy people. they are healthy happy people who are making informed decisions that they feel good about!

    Actually your doctor and his followers (you being representative) do look like a bunch of crazy people. Any doctor who would make such statements is an arrogant ass. There are so many factors to consider when assessing exposures and diseases and to take a raw stat like that and credit not vaccinating is irresponsible. If he is so sure then he would put his patient base into a study. Your standard of proof is laughable and consistent with your ignorance.

    ReplyDelete
  27. The DTaP vaccine ingredients include, (but not limited to):Chemicals - formaldehyde, aluminum hydroxide, aluminum phosphate, thimerosal, and polysorbate 80 (Tween-80), and the animal byproduct Gelatin. (not to mention the viral and toxoid ingredients, my focus is on the Toxic waste)
    Formaldehyde, AKA embalming fluid, is a toxic poison to the human body and is not safe for injection at any level, (maybe it will save money when you die, you've already been embalmed). Formaldehyde is more dangerous to children than adults as their immune systems are not yet developed. It weakens the immune system, causes neurological system damage, genetic damage, metabolic acidosis, circulatory shock, respiratory insufficiency and acute renal failure, as well as being a sensitizer, it is corrosive if ingested, and it is a suspected carcinogen.
    For a more indepth look at Formaldehyde click here

    Aluminum Hydroxide is an aluminum salt. Aluminum is a very powerful Neurotoxin and has been associated with Alzheimers and other Neurological disorders like dementia, Psychosis, Encephalitis and more. As vaccine numbers increase, so does the use of aluminum. Aluminum can build up in the body, primarily in the brain, liver, thyroid, and lung tissues.
    For a more indepth look at Aluminum Hydroxide, click here.

    Aluminum phosphate: Another powerful Neurotoxin, very similar to Aluminum Hydroxide, it is another aluminum salt and has been associated with many of the same ailments and Neurological conditions due to the aluminum content. The U.S. has 25% of the worlds Alzheimers cases, very likely because we can afford more vaccines. Perhaps the vaccine manufacturers will like you, but your brain might not.
    More details about aluminum phosphate click here

    Thimerosal: This ingredient is 50% Mercury, the second most toxic ingredient known to man being surpassed only by Plutonium. Although we have been told that Thimerosal has been removed from our vaccines and they are now safer, thimerosal is apparently still being used and then filtered out post production. Unfortunately some of the mercury binds to proteins in the vaccine and remains there. Thimerosal was defended by vaccine manufacturers for many years but there has been a change of heart. Unfortunately in spite of growing evidence their demeanor is to manufacture and promote dangerous vaccines for all those years than to find something else until a panel of scientists decided to get rid of it. Some vaccines however still have Thimerosal as part of the ingredient list.
    More details about Thimerosal click here

    Polysorbate 80: A food additive that when injected into prepubescent female rats, it causes sterility.
    Read a more details about polysorbate 80 click here

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The mere presence of an excipient does not make it toxic. What are levels actually associated with toxicity? Hint for you, it isn't what is in a vaccine. And using formaldehyde as "proof" of toxins in vaccines also reveals your dumbassery. Your own body makes formaldehyde, so do infants and a vaccine doesn't even raise blood levels above baseline. There is more formaldehyde in a pear than a vaccine.

      Delete
    2. I asked you which ones were more toxic than tetanospasmin, pertussis toxin or diphtheria toxin. What part of that did you not understand?

      Telling us a food additive is more toxic than tetanospasmin is also very silly.

      Now, go and find the literature to explain how those things are more toxic tetanospasmin which "second only to Botulinum toxin D as the deadliest toxin in the world".

      Delete
  28. resources:
    Just in case you could not click on the links

    http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/mhmi/mmg111.html

    http://www.novaccine.com/vaccine-ingredients/results.asp?sc=7

    http://www.holisticmed.com/aspartame/embalm.html

    Aluminum products:

    http://www.vaccinetruth.org/new_page_3.htm

    http://www.vaccination.inoz.com/ingredie.html

    http://www.angelfire.com/az/sthurston/alzheimers_and_aluminum_toxicity.html

    http://www.oxymega.com/alzheimers_dementia_aluminum.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_hydroxide

    Thimerosal:

    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/thimerosal.htm

    http://www.whale.to/a/mercury7.html

    http://www.healing-arts.org/children/cdc.htm

    Polysorbate 80:

    http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-POLYSORBATE_80-9926645

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8473002?dopt=Abstract

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16400901?dopt=Citation

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15958049?dopt=Abstract

    http://www.informedchoice.info/cocktail.html

    Disclaimer: This article is not intended to give medical advice. It is a call to educate yourself so that in making a decision where your child is concerned, you should take an active role in learning all you can from medical experts on both sides of the fence, then make an educated decision. we did not make an informed decision until one son got Leukemia and another developed Autism immediately after receiving his MMR vaccine. This has sent us on a quest to inform ourselves and others to seriously question what kind of toxic soups are being injected with the vaccines. Odds are if your child is injured by a vaccine, you have little or no recompense against the industry.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Scopie's Law: In any discussion involving science or medicine, citing Whale.to as a credible source loses you the argument immediately ...and gets you laughed out of the room.

      Really, why should we care about what you think when you do not understand simple science, and definitely do not understand what you cut and paste. Really, you should spend some time improving your education. You should start with some basic adult education in reading comprehension, and then an introductory science course.

      Delete
  29. i think as the progressive challengers of the new world pave the way, it will eventually wake up your sleeping country, or perhaps make you think twice

    ReplyDelete
  30. http://www.efanet.org/enews/documents/SASSevereAsthmaBackgrounder050307.pdf

    to read more about asthma in your neck of the woods.... and keep in mind, this is just one of the possible consequences from too many toxins!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Well, if asthma is caused by too many toxins than more vaccinations would be the answer.

      Delete
  31. still not going to get shots SM. why do you have such a big chip on your vaccinated shoulder anyway?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And why should we care about what you think?

      And really, Dr Mayer Eisenstein?

      Seriously? You might want to change doctors. From the linked article: In court records dating back three decades, the families of dead and brain-damaged children repeatedly alleged that doctors who work for Eisenstein made harmful mistakes -- sometimes the same error more than once. His practice also has been dogged by accusations in court records that its offshore malpractice policy was phony.

      Delete
    2. still not going to get shots SM. why do you have such a big chip on your vaccinated shoulder anyway?

      I don't care if you get jabbed or not; I just like to shine the light of day on biologically-illiterate anti-vaxx nonsense and dispel the myths your kind like to propagate. If you care to search this blog and anywhere else for that matter, I don't tell people to get vaccinated aside from my recommendation when asked.

      @Chris, yes it dawned on me that our anonymous poster who is so deliciously representative of the pseudoscience legion goes to Eisenstein. I wouldn't let that quack or anyone who practises for him to even look at my pets.

      Delete
  32. again Chris, I am aware, shit happens, as you said.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And by buying into the non-scientific nonsense of vaccine hysteria, you have increased the odds of something bad happening to your child.

      Delete
  33. Science Mom, Lilady and Chris-Thank you for all your excellent replies to a very oppositional opponent. As a pediatrician who has witnessed the rather insane rising tide of non-vaccination in the US, it is very discouraging. Yet often some of the staunchest non-vaxxers are college-educated and lay claim to "researching" the topic (if you call public internet search engines and non-peer reviewed articles and web-sites "research", so I'm not sure it's completely about how bad the US education system has become (though I don't disagree it has seen better days)).

    To Anonymous-I hope you will understand that soon your children may not be allowed into a pediatrician's office in the US (or at least a pediatrician with common sense). Why? Because when there are too many unvaccinated children in the US, any sick older child could come into a pediatrician's office with measles or whooping cough and infect a newborn who is too young to be vaccinated. The sad irony here being that my office may soon become the most dangerous place for newborns if more parents don't vaccinate their kids. For the record, I do have families that don't vaccinate (and have no accepted medical reason for not doing so) and I would never force someone to vaccinate their child. I have always tried to reason with these parents and never get angry with them. Occasionally one of them will come around to common sense and vaccinate, and that is worth a lot to me. But as we get closer and closer to losing herd immunity in the US, I have to think of the welfare of my youngest patients and that may mean that I will have to discharge others because, quite simply, unvaccinated children have a much much higher risk of contracting vaccine-preventable diseases and I have no way of knowing which one of them could walk into my office and infect a whole group of innocents.

    Chris Hickie, MD, PhD

    ReplyDelete
  34. @ Dr. Hickle:

    My babies were born in 1970 and 1976 and I always felt safe when I took them to their pediatricians...but this was before the proliferation of anti-vaccine websites and physicians such as Drs. Jay Gordon and Bob Sears.

    The young mothers who were my peers, who grew up and survived their childhoods intact, were very much in favor of having their babies immunized against polio, measles, mumps, rubella, diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis.

    Knowing what I know now, about credulous parents who "opt out" of vaccines, based on the pseudoscience that they read on the internet, I think I would be more selective about my choice of pediatricians. Just like these non-vaccinating parents, who seek out doctors who cater to their "beliefs"...I would be questioning pediatricians about their practice parameters.

    Yes, I would avoid any pediatric practice which encouraged parents to decide about immunizations based on their "intuitions" or based on an "alternative" vaccine schedule.

    ReplyDelete
  35. As you criticize Dr X and his practice, please keep in mind that they are running a successful business with thousands of patients. Some have chosen to go there straight out of the baby making gate, while others have turned that direction looking for answers when their children were left out in the cold or not thriving on other routine vaccinated "suggestions" from mainstream pediatricians. Your hyped up angst towards parents like us could be a result of the gnawing sensation of doubt deep in your bellies. You mask it with sensational scare tactics and accusations that our child is going to infect the innocent. There are more and more people waking up to these smoke screens, and they will continue to mock your scientific convictions and aims.

    Health and happiness to everyone!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. As you criticize Dr X and his practice, please keep in mind that they are running a successful business with thousands of patients.

      You cut/pasted his quote, so he is not "Dr. X", but Mayer Eisenstein. So what if he has a successful practice, that does not insulate him from critism and lawsuits: In other words, Dr. Eisenstein doesn’t care so much if the Geiers’ Lupron quackery works or not. He only cares if insurance will pay him for it. The article also shows him to be prone to–well, let’s just say prone to “embellishing” the truth, which makes me wonder how much he’s “embellished” his claims that unvaccinated children in his practice don’t get autism. He doesn’t necessarily have to be lying, but my guess is that he doesn’t have the records and uses confirmation bias and selective memory to make such claims.

      And you continue: You mask it with sensational scare tactics and accusations that our child is going to infect the innocent.

      Except that incident actually happened. And other unvaccinated children are responsible for deaths: And another SSPE case: Angelina is dying. How is it scaremongering when we present real examples of something happening?

      Delete
    2. Doctors who bled people and gave them poisons to fight infections also had very successful practices, what's your point?

      Delete
  36. My neighbor has a 6 month old baby that I see regularly. She has had 2 big days of vaccinations, and both days she immeadiately developed fevers and had a loss of appetite. baby was given tylenol to reduce fever. Is this what normally happens after receiving shots? I do not vaccinate and do not have any first hand experience. my son is extremely healthy at 9 months, and has never had a sniffle or a cold.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anon, yes that is not an uncommon reaction but a mild one. It is not recommended that fever reducers are given for just a fever but rather for discomfort.

      My children are extremely healthy too, vaccinated and didn't even have fevers after their jabs.

      Delete
    2. Vaccination – Some Unknown Facts
      Since vaccination was introduced, there has been increasing evidence outlining the lack of effectiveness of vaccinating children, while at the same time highlighting the possible dangerous consequences of doing so. Vaccination is often held responsible for the decline in some infectious diseases and is promoted as a fail-safe method of protecting us against the onset of serious disease. In truth, before the introduction of vaccines, most of the major infectious disease had declined up to 90%, due to improved standards of living – nutrition, sanitation, hygiene and education. You may have seen graphs showing the introduction of vaccines for given diseases, followed by a sharp decline in their incidence. What you have been shown is a small part of the complete picture. In most cases the disease would have been on the decline, which you will see in research and graphs looking back over the pattern of disease for decades, if not centuries before.

      Conventional medical approaches are based on the theories of 17th century scientist Louis Pasteur, who believed germs are the cause of disease. Most Homeopaths believe that germs are not enemies of your body but are an important waste removing mechanism. It is when the balance of our body is in disharmony (either physically, emotionally or spiritually), and in turn our immunity lowered, that a favourable environment for germs to produce toxic waste products is created. In fact believing that germs cause disease can be likened to believing that flies cause rubbish. Louis Pasteur contradicted his own theory before he died saying “The seed (germ) is nothing. The soil (body) is everything.”

      Another concern of vaccinations is the way they are administered. By injecting toxins directly into the bloodstream and bypassing the normal route of immune defence of the body – i.e. skin, mucous membranes of the nose and mouth and the liver, the usual immune response of the body, and consequent recovery, is bypassed. While this produces an antibody reaction, it is not a normal defence reaction by the body. Reactions to infectious diseases such as fever, rashes and coughs do not occur as they should, so the cycle of natural immune system stimulation, recovery and subsequent natural immunity and ability to respond quickly and easily to other illnesses in future, is compromised. Children suffer from a wide variety of illnesses while their little bodies are learning to cope with disease. It is not always a good idea to suppress these symptoms or indeed prevent the onset of certain infectious diseases. The body of a growing child is learning and acquiring resistance to disease, which invites and provokes an immune response. Childhood diseases are therefore part of growing up and a child who is able to cope with them naturally, will be laying the foundation for a healthy maturity and a strong illness free adulthood.

      In many cases of vaccine reactions and adverse effects, the exposure of the given toxin (or 2 or 3 e.g. DPT, MMR vaccines) directly into the system is only partly to blame. It is the other highly toxic substances that go into the manufacturing of vaccines that are to blame. These include mercury, formaldehydes, animal proteins, diploid cells from aborted foetuses, aluminium and chemical preservatives, all of which have a detrimental affect on the body. In nature, disease products enter and inhabit the body in a “pure” form and are not altered by chemicals and heat, which prolong its survival in the body. The quantity of modified toxins administered via vaccination is massive is comparison to that acquired naturally, with no consideration given to the dose administered to an infant or adult – it is exactly the same. It is up to parents to decide if the risk of acquiring and recovering from a disease naturally is greater than the possible side effects of trying to prevent it by conventional vaccination.

      Delete
    3. Vaccination – Some Unknown Facts

      Citation needed. Especially since this screed contains several glaring errors.

      And do tell which vaccines are administered intravenously.

      Delete
    4. Vaccination – Some Unknown Facts
      Since vaccination was introduced, there has been increasing evidence outlining the lack of effectiveness of vaccinating children, while at the same time highlighting the possible dangerous consequences of doing so.


      More like, "look what I just read and it's twoo". What evidence? You want to puke up "facts", support it with the evidence.

      Vaccination is often held responsible for the decline in some infectious diseases and is promoted as a fail-safe method of protecting us against the onset of serious disease. In truth, before the introduction of vaccines, most of the major infectious disease had declined up to 90%, due to improved standards of living – nutrition, sanitation, hygiene and education. You may have seen graphs showing the introduction of vaccines for given diseases, followed by a sharp decline in their incidence. What you have been shown is a small part of the complete picture. In most cases the disease would have been on the decline, which you will see in research and graphs looking back over the pattern of disease for decades, if not centuries before.

      Shockingly, another anti-vaxx intelligentsia who doesn't know the difference between incidence, prevalence, mortality and morbidity. No moron anti-vaxxer, whatever graphs you are referring to don't show any such thing. But you can always post a link to your graph and explain how it does.

      Delete
    5. I replied to this but I don't know what happened to it. Anyway, fever is a common side effect of vaccines because they induce your immune system which is what the actual cause of fevers is. My children never got fevers after vaccination.

      Also, my son was not sick once in his first year of life and that is very uncommon. My children's pediatrician was always trying to put them in clinical studies because they rarely get sick and my son actually did participate in an influenza study in Canada because he has never had the flu. They found that he had several mutations in his MHC genes which are known to be associated with a good innate immune system. Which makes a lot of sense. He was never sick because his innate immune system fought off the pathogen before any symptoms began. That has nothing whatsoever to do with vaccines. He was lucky enough to inherit it. Except flu shots he is fully vaccinated.

      Delete
  37. My children never got fevers from vaccines, but it is a common side effect of vaccines because it is inducing your immune system which can cause a fever. My son didn't get sick once in his first year, which is extremely rare, and he has no antibodies for any influenza. He is in his 20s and I could count on one hand the number of times he has been ill. He entered a study in Canada and they found that he has a lot of mutations in his MHC genes that are associated with a strong innate immune system as well as ones associated with being able to combat HIV. That is why he is never visibly ill. His innate immune system fights off infections before he shows any symptoms. This has nothing whatsoever to do with vaccines. He inherited it. Other than flu shots he is fully vaccinated.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Studies indicate that vaccinations do not always provide protection against the diseases they are trying to prevent and in many cases can lead to its onset. As many as 50-90% of people affected by infectious diseases, as recorded in medical journals, were vaccinated against the disease. Both the viral and preservative components of vaccinations are stored in the body, often mutating and can emerge many weeks, months or years later in the form of other chronic diseases, most commonly, eczema, asthma, recurrent ear infections, tonsillitis, arthritis, food allergies and intolerance, learning and behavioural disorders. It is believed that like the administration and over prescribing of antibiotics which has lead to bacterial infections mutating and acquiring resistance to treatment, so too have many infectious diseases due to vaccination. Could it be that the discovery and prevalence of many chronic diseases over the last century has come from the suppression and subsequent mutation of common and mild infectious diseases?

    The indiscriminate administration of vaccines is alarming when you consider how common and how broad the range of adverse reactions are. It is unnerving that many parents are not informed of the possible risks of vaccinations by their doctor, let alone an individual schedule devised for each child depending on their state of health. Homeopaths would agree that debate and controversy over vaccination can only be a positive scenario as the only thing worse than an ignorant parent (and by that I mean one who is either adamantly for or against vaccination without doing any research or knowing the facts) is one that does not realise that there is cause for concern in the first place.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Where did you cut/paste this drivel from. Homeopaths believe that the more you dilute something the stronger it gets, so why should we believe anything they say?

      Delete
    2. Homeopaths? Really? And study citations please? This isn't some dumbass mummy group that would be impressed with your vapid appeal to authority, particularly when you invoke homeopaths.

      Delete
  39. From the CDC report: Autism and Developmental Disabilities Monitoring Network Surveillance Year 2008 Principal Investigators

    Results: For 2008, the overall estimated prevalence of ASDs among the 14 ADDM sites was 11.3 per 1,000 (one in 88) children aged 8 years who were living in these communities during 2008. Overall ASD prevalence estimates varied widely across all sites (range: 4.8–21.2 per 1,000 children aged 8 years). ASD prevalence estimates also varied widely by sex and by racial/ethnic group. Approximately one in 54 boys and one in 252 girls living in the ADDM Network communities were identified as having ASDs. Comparison of 2008 findings with those for earlier surveillance years indicated an increase in estimated ASD prevalence of 23% when the 2008 data were compared with the data for 2006 (from 9.0 per 1,000 children aged 8 years in 2006 to 11.0 in 2008 for the 11 sites that provided data for both surveillance years) and an estimated increase of 78% when the 2008 data were compared with the data for 2002 (from 6.4 per 1,000 children aged 8 years in 2002 to 11.4 in 2008 for the 13 sites that provided data for both surveillance years). Because the ADDM Network sites do not make up a nationally representative sample, these combined prevalence estimates should not be generalized to the United States as a whole.

    Interpretation: These data confirm that the estimated prevalence of ASDs identified in the ADDM network surveillance populations continues to increase. The extent to which these increases reflect better case ascertainment as a result of increases in awareness and access to services or true increases in prevalence of ASD symptoms is not known. ASDs continue to be an important public health concern in the United States, underscoring the need for continued resources to identify potential risk factors and to provide essential supports for persons with ASDs and their families.

    ReplyDelete
  40. “Upending the federal government’s approach to regulating toxic chemicals and putting tough emissions standards in place at power plants are two good places to start,” said Cook. The federal Toxic Substances Control Act has allowed the chemical industry to flood the marketplace with toxic chemicals, including neurotoxins, with virtually no proof they are safe for people.

    eat them up ladies... all your so called safe neurotoxins! Many people are skipping the recommended servings found in vaccines.

    Risky New Vaccine Pushed on Babies
    – May 15, 2011
    Posted in: Articles
    Print PDF 1
    William C. Douglass Jr, MD
    William C. Douglass, M.D.

    May 15, 2011

    The needle nuts are at it again — and this time, they’re pushing a dangerous vaccine on babies for a disease you shouldn’t worry about in the first place.

    The feds have signed off on a plan to give Menactra, a vaccine that’s supposed to prevent invasive meningococcal disease, to babies as young as nine months old.

    “The highest rate of meningococcal disease occurs in children under one year of age,” said Dr. Karen Midthun, director of FDA’s Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research.

    Sounds scary, right?

    But here’s what she didn’t say: The overall odds of dying of meningococcal disease are so low you’re more likely to be hit by lightning TWICE!

    The condition strikes just 2,500 Americans a year, killing 300 — putting the risk of death at literally one in a million.

    Now, I’m not heartless — any death at all is tragic. If there was a safe and effective way to save 300 lives out of 300 million people, I’d sign up for it in an instant.

    But this ain’t it.

    Take a look at this warning right on the front page of the vaccine’s Web site, just past all the usual promises of pain, redness, swelling, headache and fatigue: “There is a potential for an increased chance of getting Guillain-Barré syndrome following vaccination. Vaccination with Menactra vaccine may not protect all individuals.”

    Talk about a double whammy — an increased risk of a crippling and potentially deadly nervous system disorder AND the vaccine may not even work!

    Health officials claim the Guillain-Barré risk is small… but get this: The World Health Organization says the odds of getting the syndrome following a Menactra vaccination are 1.25 in a million.

    In other words, the risk of getting Guillain-Barré syndrome from the vaccine is actually slightly greater than the overall risk of dying of the disease the shot is supposed to (but might not) prevent.

    You just can’t make this stuff up!

    www.douglassreport.com

    http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2011/05/15/risky-new-vaccine-pushed-on-babies/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You do know that following any viral infection you are at an increased risk for developing Guillain-Barre, that includes a common cold.

      Delete
  41. go ahead with your complaints that he does not cite his sources, and is not supporting his claims with science. his statements should surely raise the eyebrows of a parent looking for answers. as we have seen from this certainly sensational article...

    'GlaxoSmithKline to pay $3 billion in fines, the largest health care fraud settlement in U.S. history – THE ASSOCIATED PRESS – Tuesday, July 3, 2012'

    and hmmm lets see here...GSK offers a broad range of vaccines. (it says so right on their website)

    these alternative view points may start to make sense to parents looking for optimal health and happiness.

    So lets rais a Glass to this guy :o)

    ReplyDelete
  42. In America we give vaccines to infants, before their blood brain barrier has developed the ability to keep the vaccines out.

    The rise in autism paralleled the rise in vaccines in the 1950s.

    All vaccines kill some patients. America used to have a low infant mortality rate (12th in 1960), but today we ranked 30th.

    A new study found "a high statistically significant correlation between increasing numbers of vaccine doses and increasing infant mortality rates." To put this into perspective, doctors give American babies 26 doses of vaccines before age one, which is twice as many vaccinations as babies in Sweden and Japan get.

    Miller NZ,, Goldman GS. Infant mortality rates regressed against number of vaccine doses routinely given: Is there a biochemical or synergistic toxicity? Human and Experimental Toxicology: Published online May 4, 2011.

    Little wonder that Japan has an infant mortality rate of 3.14 per 1000 live births and Sweden 3.18, while the USA has a rate of 7.07, more than twice as high.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Stop listening to people that do not know what they are talking about. The blood-brain barrier has been known for years to be fully developed before birth. It was widely believed more than 20 years ago that it did not develop until after birth. See, misinforming yourself is definitely not the answer. You are entirely confused. Also, you are exposed to more pathogens every single day than all the vaccines anyone will ever get in their lifetime, including people in the military.

      Delete
    2. Well, I was wrong about the 20 years. I looked it up and it was first thought that it was fully developed about 20 years ago, but it was not confirmed until 2010.

      Delete
    3. Sweden has 9 million people living on the area of California, parents get over a year paid parental leave, so that children rarely go to center based care before they are one (the US has no paid parental leave). Sweden has a low Gini index (indicating income disparity), the US a high one. Sweden has a National Health service, offering equal, uniform access to health care. Do you really want to reduce infant mortality to vaccines? That would be tremendously naive.

      Delete
    4. "All vaccines kill some patients. America used to have a low infant mortality rate (12th in 1960), but today we ranked 30th."

      First of all - the statistics does not relate to vaccines as a cause for infant mortality. Secondly - a ranking depends on the scores in the populatioin, so what are the scores for infant mortality in the US? Well, accoring to US Department of Health and Human Services report "Infant Mortality in the United States, 1935-2007: Over Seven Decades of Progress and Disparities" by Singh & van Dyck where the ranking statistic is present the actual mortality in 1960 was somewhere between 25-30 (estimated from graph) per 1000 live births, and in 2007 it was 6.7 per 1000 live births. So using the actual measurement and the reasoning skills shown by Anonymous vaccines actually contribute to infant survival...

      Delete
  43. Tetanus, as given, is a combination vaccine with diphtheria and pertussis (DPT shot).

    As far as tetanus, itself, it is rare disease, hard to catch, rarely fatal with proper treatment and so prevalent as spores in dirt and dust you're probably vaccinated naturally.

    Polio, in actual fact, is a class of viruses in which most strains produce no symptoms and was not even a serious illness until around the end of the 19th century, when a certain strain became epidemic as paralysis in a small percent of the exposed.

    It was always a rare strain anyway and already on the way out as a disease when the polio vaccine was introduced, thus insuring everyone in the world has been exposed to this, previously rare, epidemic polio strain.

    Ironically, it is the inability to control certain childhood viral exposures later in life that leads to some immune dysfunctions, as seen in CFS patients, and may even lead to cancers.

    So your vaunted vaccine program may be responisble for pre-exposing most people to viral loads and strains they never would have been exposed to "in the wild" and condeming many to chronic, disabiling illnesses later in life they would have avoided by not being vaccinated.

    But, but all means, line your kids up for those jabs. Because befiore 1960 EVERYONE died of polio and we all know how common death from stepping on a rusty nail is these days.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Before immunization there were around 1,500 reported cases of tetanus a year in the US with a 45% mortality rate. The mortality rate in children under 6 is higher and the mortality rate after 11 is lower. Since the introduction of the immunization there are around 20 reported cases of tetanus in the US, almost all in under-vaccinated individuals. With treatment, which includes a booster vaccination, the mortality rate is pretty low, around 2%. Without receiving the booster vaccination the mortality rate is around 25%.

      Paralytic poliomyelitis was first reported in the late 1700s and by 1840 caused a pandemic. Pandemics always have peaks and valleys. The strain of polio that caused paralysis was the predominant strain in the world in the 20th century. It did not always cause paralysis, but always had the potential to do so. Polio can be spread in a variety of ways, including person-person contact, oral-fecal route, and aerosolized particles. If you look at the data from outbreaks in the US, you will see that a valley had just been left and a peak was beginning when the immunization program began. The viral load you receive from vaccines in a lifetime is nothing compared to the viral load you experience every day. Also, it is not the rust that causes tetanus, it is dirt. And yes, I will happily line my children up for vaccinations.

      Delete
  44. you'd discover the paralytic form of polio is an abberation. The polio virus strain that causes the paralytic form is not the most prevalent strain and most people who do become exposed to it still don't become ill, and are naturally immune to it, and possibly other polio viruses.

    But they submitted to vaccination, thus exposing themselves to the live, attenuated or killed virus of the paralytic strain orally, or through direct subcutaneaous injection, and all the possible contaminants, therein, to ward off an illness only a small percentage would even have been exposed to and an even smaller number would ever even get sick from, much less suffer permanent harm from.

    This paralytic form was unknown before the end of the 19th century and was already naturally dying out - possibly through naturally aquired herd immunity or mutation of the virus to a less debilitating form, by the 1960s.

    Since polio viruses are aquired mainly through the fecal/oral route it is reasonable to think modern farmers may have picked the paralytic form up from animal manure and after 80 years it had run its course through the human population, as all the other polio viruses must have done in the past.

    Most diseases "cured" by vaccines were in decline before the vaccine became prevalent. If vaccines cure disease, that in no way reflects on their potential to cause disease.

    Don't put words in my mouth, I don't put your foot into yours.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. sources desperately needed - there is so much wrong in your above post, it is a real achievement.

      Delete
  45. Here are three studies that won't be discussed in major media. A Positive Association found between Autism Prevalence and Childhood Vaccination uptake across the U.S. Population. Delong G. J Toxicol Environ Health A. 2011 Jan;74(14):903-16. pdf here: http://tinyurl.com/3p2cd5z Do aluminum vaccine adjuvants contribute to the rising prevalence of autism? Tomljenovic L, Shaw CA. J Inorg Biochem. 2011 Nov;105(11):1489-99. pdf here: http://omsj.org/reports/tomljenovic%202011.pdf see also: Infant mortality rates regressed against number of vaccine doses routinely given: is there a biochemical or synergistic toxicity? Miller NZ, Goldman GS. Hum Exp Toxicol. 2011 Sep;30(9):1420-8. pdf here: http://het.sagepub.com/content/30/9/1420.long

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. no, they won't be discussed, because they are not very good. We discussed the last paper (even with the authors Gary Goldman and Neil Miller) on this blog:

      http://justthevax.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/oh-goodness-here-i-wanted-to-go-to-bed.html

      http://justthevax.blogspot.co.uk/2011/06/unanswered-question.html

      Delete
  46. more on tetanus

    It's a rare disease because it is an anaerobic bacteria that has a hard time establishing itself in normal cutaneous scratches and cuts, but must have a place far from oxygenated tissues, such as a deep puncture wound in the foot, to develop within the body

    Thus the caution about stepping on rusty nails. Old corroded nails in the ground, especially in farm land - manure is a great reservoir of tetanus, are a great way for live tetnus spores to be injected into a deep, un-oxygenated environment.

    However, it is a common soil bacterium and you are exposed to it through dust in the home and those surface scracthes. This exposure probably confers decent immunity over the years.

    Tetanus bacteria causes damage through a neurotoxin. If you are exposed to tetanus and it develops an acute illness, the anti-toxin and parenteral care so you don't dehydrate if you can't swallow for a few days will usually cure you.

    Now, the alternative to the natural risk - which is really low now that most of us aren't farmers with little access to health care out there on the prairie, is regular boosters - though Drs around here are not in agreemnt on this - every few years of tetanus, diphtheria and pertussis. The choice is up to you. But tetanus isn't rare because of the vaccine, its rare because it has always been rare. But before the development of anti-toxins and the need for parenteral care, meant most people starved or died of dehydration before the illness ran its course.

    What's a bigger risk, the chance of getting tetanus from some surface cuts or the unknown future risk of multiple DPT shots over your life that the Drs don't know of, or aren't telling you? That's the risk you are taking, not whether the vaccine prevented you from getting tetanus. Understand, if you get the vaccine, but are never exposed to tetanus AND the conditions that allow tetanus to develop when you are exposed, the vaccine prevented NOTHING!

    The choice to vaccinate is up to you. Do you want an informed choice, or a fearful one?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. http://justthevax.blogspot.co.uk/2010/12/tetanus-in-unvaccinated-teen.html

      Tetanus in an unvaccinated teen

      Delete
    2. I want to make an informed choice, you apparently want to make a fearful one. I just wish innocent children were not involved in your fearful choice.

      Delete
  47. ok i understand tetanus very well

    now thimerosal

    Unequivocally, There is Strong Evidence Linking Thimerosal to Autism
    Open Letter to Gov. Linda Lingle
    By Richard C. Deth, PhD, 7/3/2006 11:45:51 AM

    I am a neuropharmacologist and Full Professor at Northeastern University in Boston who has been investigating the molecular origins of neurodevelopmental and neuropsychiatric disorders. For the past few years much of my lab's work has focused on autism, including an evaluation of the possible contribution of thimerosal, the ethylmercury-containing vaccine preservative. Based upon my expertise in this area I have testified to Congress on several occasions, appeared on NBC Nightly News and in several documentaries and presented our findings at numerous scientific conferences.

    I understand that you are currently evaluating legislation to removal thimerosal from vaccines used in Hawaii. Let me state unequivocally that there is strong scientific evidence linking thimerosal to autism, so taking steps to remove it from vaccines is a true "no-brainer". Moreover, it is vital that states indicate their expectation of thimerosal-free vaccines in order to shift the pharmaceutical industry to this safer form. Public confidence in the vaccination program will be greatly increased when mercury is removed, allowing the full public health benefits without the unnecessary mercury burden.

    Our research has shown that very low concentrations of thimerosal, typical of those found in the blood following vaccination, cause strong inhibition of metabolic processes that are crucial to neuronal cell well-being and survival. The most sensitive of these processes involves sulfur metabolism, including the anti-oxidant defense mechanism that is critical to all cells. The effect of thimerosal is to significantly lower levels of glutathione, the primary cellular antioxidant. Studies of autistic children clearly show that they are suffering from oxidative stress and their glutathione levels are reduced by 40-50%. Thus the toxic metabolic actions of thimerosal are paralleled in clinical studies of autistic children.

    In further studies we showed that thimerosal inhibits a key cellular process called "methylation", in which various activities, including gene expression, are controlled by the transfer of a single carbon atom. Methylation is closely linked to oxidative stress, and when thimerosal induces oxidative stress, it also causes impaired methylation. Again, blood tests in autistic children show that they have impaired methylation. Furthermore, metabolic therapies that help restore methylation have been able to improve the clinical symptoms of many autistic children, strongly indicating that this metabolic dysfunction plays a central role. Genetic studies have also revealed a higher frequency of risk-inducing polymorphisms and mutations affecting methylation and sulfur metabolism. Our most recent research indicates that the brain has a particularly higher vulnerability to oxidative stress, which helps explain why neurological problems occur with low doses of thimerosal.

    The point of all this scientific background is to reinforce the common sense logic of reducing mercury exposure by all possible routes, including vaccine-related. It is illogical to inject mercury into anyone, at any age, and you will be doing a service to all Hawaiians by helping to restrict their exposure by signing SB2133 part II.

    If I can help provide any further background, please feel to contact me. I am eager to assist.

    Richard C. Deth, PhD is a Professor of Pharmacology for Northeastern University in Boston, Massachusetts

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What vaccine in the present American pediatric schedule is only available with thimerosal? Please be specific, and don't mention influenza because half of those approved for children do not have thimerosal.

      And this bit is getting old, like a decade out of date. If SafeMinds could not find a vaccine with thimerosal over ten years ago, why do you go on about it?

      See:

      Subject: Thimerosal DTaP Needed
      From: Sally Bernard
      Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 00:01:50 -0400
      Yahoo! Message Number: 27456
      Onibasu Link: http://onibasu.com/archives/am/27456.html

      Hi all:

      A group of university-based researchers needs several vials of the older DTaP vaccine formulations which contained thimerosal for a legitimate research study. If anyone knows an MD who might have some of these vaccines or knows where to get them, please email me privately.

      Thank you.

      Sallie Bernard
      Executive Director
      Safe Minds


      Delete
  48. The General Medical Council (GMC) of the United Kingdom has cleared the medical flack surrounding one of Dr. Andrew Wakefield’s medical colleagues, Professor John Walker-Smith, and recanted their censure against him. In a press release dated March 7, 2012, GMC cleared Walker-Smith by overturning its decision of “guilty of serious professional misconduct.” Even the judge ruled that the hearings were a farce—wow!

    http://vactruth.com/2012/03/11/general-medical-council-recants/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Where is Andrew Wakefield allowed to practice medicine?

      Delete
    2. Exactly. Prof. Walker-Smith got a reprieve because he claims he was deceived by Wakefield. If exonerating Walker-Smith removes the entire GMC ruling, then Wakefield would have been added back to the medical registered. As that has not been done, Wakefield cannot practice medicine in any country.

      It is this blind faith of Anonymous, who cannot even check out the simplest facts, is evidence he/she cannot think for him/herself.

      Delete
  49. Yes! your post is a real achievement anonymous! keep them coming.
    More people are not taking this science based toxic crap. Good luck to those who do... Why, again please, is it healthy for a baby to receive possibly twice as many shots as science mom and catherina did when they were babies?

    http://www.nvic.org/downloads/49-doses-posterb.aspx
    49 DOSES OF 14 VACCINES BEFORE AGE 6?
    before you take the risk, find out what it is.

    happiness and health,
    Xx the original "best anti-vaccine comment" annonymous mother of a lovely healthy 9 month old

    ReplyDelete
  50. Paul Offit Agrees that Vaccines Cause Autistic Spectrum Conditions

    http://www.ageofautism.com/2011/05/paul-offit-agrees-that-vaccines-cause-autistic-spectrum-conditions.html

    ReplyDelete
  51. Truth is truth. Mr Offit...I really would love to sit down with you one day, and go piece by piece with the scientific evidence my kids suffered from vaccine induced encephalopathy ADEM, metabolic crisis, and immune derrangement. I would love to impart into you the wisdom of twenty years of research, and how the "last straw oxidative stressor" known as vaccines, can pinpointedly, damage a predisposed oxidatively stressed child. I would love to show you experts who know how vaccines are full of caca (scientific term for shit) contaminants and neurotoxins. I would love for you to know that not all kids have healing capitals like superior immune systems, or wonderful mitochondrial capacity or adequate metallothionein and MTHFR and COMT problems. I would love to show you what toxins do, how mercury/aluminum imitates metabolic collapse, immune collapse, inflammatory conditions in the brain. I would love to take random lots and have them tested for retroviruses and mycoplasma and human DNA destroying antibodies. I would love to show you how a predisposed child has no chance in HADES on this current schedule to come out unscathed by vaccines. I would love to show you in a friendly professional manner, how this has happened, but I am afraid by the time I lay down my evidence, you may have to use the bathroom and upchuck the millions of dollars you made off the blood of babies, including mine. Oh how I wish I never listened to the likes of your minions and your "scientific evidence" and your "tell a lie long enough" philosophies. How was I to know? I have a child with autism who is thirty, who took part in the first uptake schedule of vaccines and no truthful scientific outlay articles to dispute them. Now there is so much of them, it's no longer a scientific issue, rather a political monetary one. I should have listened to my "ill informed gut". I know people are waking up to people like you who feign concern for my chidren's health. This is what you fear, informed consent. Heck, you haven't even tested an autistic child, let alone even touched them, so how can you claim you know "all about autism". Here's a challenge for you. Show up at a DAN meeting, or a think tank, or Autism One....we would LOVE to have you there...we would even ask you come incognito, heck send a spy. Let that spy take it "all in". Take the time. Ask some moms, researchers and lecturers what is going on here. If you really have "nothing to hide and have the best of intentions"...you would be able to do that, no problem right? And, do you dispute that some kids heal from autism via homeoapthy? Frankly, you never have looked at a multitude of mothers evidences, binders full of biomedical CLIA certified lab results which show inflammatory cytokines, microglia, severe gut inflammation, damaged blood brain barriers, viral titers and antibodies, immune system damages, markers/DNA of the very viruses that are in vaccines sitting in their guts and spinal fluids persisting in them unnaturally? Or, the damage of brains inflammed by immune systems on overdrive, spect scans, and MRI's. Plueez Dr offit, give me a chance...I think you will be very enlightened, VERY~

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I doubt Dr. Offit would get much from your ramblings. You have shown you cannot write coherently (paragraphs are your friends), have a closed mind, do not know any of the basic science, cut/paste stuff from dubious sources, and that you cannot even think for yourself.

      Delete
  52. Thanks for corrective information on tetanus, i have used second hand quotes, copy/paste.

    as a pharmaceutical scientist myself, i am not dumb, i agree on the necessities of vaccines, but please, again, to apply them past 2-3 year of age, or make them safe (multivalents are not safe).

    so vaccine yes, bur more safe. to disregard the vaccine damage in the age 0-3 years is disgrace.

    i have spoken with infectious disease/vaccine expert prof., and there is a possibility to addjust the vaccine calendar and spare the infants, i.e. to vaccinate past 3 years of age.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No, seriously. Tell us what in a vaccine is more toxic than tetanospasmin? Or to help you... tell us what in the vaccine is more toxic than pertussis toxin or diphtheria toxin.
      as a pharmaceutical scientist myself, i am not dumb,

      Well, if you are same Anonymous, then you are not demonstrating much intelligence. That includes your lack of use of actual English grammar and punctuation, your cut/paste drivel, and your choices of "citations."

      If you are a "pharmaceutical scientist" then you would no trouble telling us exactly how much more dangerous the "toxins" in the DTaP vaccine are worse than the toxins created by the bacteria that cause diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis. Something you so far failed to answer. And if you really are a "scientist" you would know how to use a real citation by posting the title, date, and journal of the PubMed indexed paper supporting your statements.

      Oh, and don't bother citing any of Dr. Chris Shaw's papers. He has been found out to be both incompetent and not very truthful after he showed up in the comments here. He also pulled a "Brave Sir Robin" disappearing act.

      Delete
    2. Worrying about multivalent vaccines is ridiculous. If you get a cold you are exposed to 15-25 different antigens at one time. If you get strep throat it could be as high as 50. Why would three or four make any difference at all?

      Children in their first 5 years, especially their first year of life, are at greatest risk from vaccine preventable diseases. A lot of vaccines are not safe for small infants so they are not given until later in life. The ones that are given have been shown to be safe and it is important to protect them at that vulnerable time of their life.

      Delete
  53. Hi Chris, i am here again, as year ago. I have catched up with your posts on internet, you have my big respect, but pls, be polite. Also Caterine, ScienceMom and Sullivan. This blog is is very good (if you dont erase my posts with the scientific citations/evidences, savvy?)


    So the anons are not me, i have come back only yesterday, otherwise i was posting only to Wakefield thread year ago. So i will use my nick Pharmascientist.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Okay, then answer my question anyway:
      Show us exactly how much more dangerous the "toxins" in the DTaP vaccine are worse than the toxins created by the bacteria that cause diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis. One of those is tetanospasmin.

      I don't believe Science Mom or Catherina would delete any post that provided a proper citation that included the title, date and journal of the PubMed indexed papers that support your statements.

      Delete
    2. Chris, respond only to my post pls, i am not anti-vaxer or homeopath, i am a real pharmaceutical scientist, so do not use any ad-hominem. DTaP vaccine is needed, but a safe one. generally, how to not damage 0-2/3 year children with vaccines.
      I have read today that your child got damaged by vaccine-preventable illness, but the same applies in the case of unsafe vaccine damages to many other children of 0-2/3 year of age. Do you understand ?

      certainly there is cover-up from industry and industry affiliated individuals as dr. Proffit.


      ad:
      "Show us exactly how much more dangerous the "toxins" in the DTaP vaccine are worse than the toxins created by the bacteria that cause diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis. One of those is tetanospasmin."


      They have deleted it many times a year ago when i have posted references, so lets say they wont do it again.

      ad

      I don't believe Science Mom or Catherina would delete any post that provided a proper citation that included the title, date and journal of the PubMed indexed papers that support your statements.

      Delete
    3. First thing: I cannot understand your text speak. Please be courteous and actually spell out your words, use proper punctuation and grammar. Second thing: Do not use insults when referring to other people like Dr. Offit, or invoke a conspiracy theory. Doing these simple things would make us believe you have a college science degree.

      Third thing: if you make a claim, you need to provide supporting evidence for that claim. If the vaccines are more dangerous than the diseases (like pertussis, hib, etc), then provide proper citations. And that does not mean websites, or a news article (especially one where the original is gone).

      Finally, why would anyone delete your evidence? Try again, but do not use lots of URL links. Here are some examples of the citations:

      Vaccine. 2012 Jun 13;30(28):4292-8. Epub 2012 Apr 20.
      The combined measles, mumps, and rubella vaccines and the total number of vaccines are not associated with development of autism spectrum disorder: The first case-control study in Asia.

      Vaccine. 2012 Jan 5;30(2):247-53.
      Lack of association between childhood immunizations and encephalitis in California, 1998-2008.

      Pediatrics Vol. 126 No. 2 August 1, 2010 (doi: 10.1542/peds.2009-1496)
      Lack of Association Between Acellular Pertussis Vaccine and Seizures in Early Childhood

      BMC Public Health. 2011 May 19;11:340.
      Congenital rubella syndrome and autism spectrum disorder prevented by rubella vaccination--United States, 2001-2010.

      Pediatrics. 2010 Jun;125(6):1134-41.
      On-time vaccine receipt in the first year does not adversely affect neuropsychological outcomes.

      Pediatr Infect Dis J. 2010 May;29(5):397-400.
      Lack of association between measles-mumps-rubella vaccination and autism in children: a case-control study.

      Pediatrics. 2009 Jun;123(6):1446-51.
      Parental refusal of pertussis vaccination is associated with an increased risk of pertussis infection in children.

      Pediatrics, February 2009, Vol. 123(2):475-82
      Neuropsychological Performance 10 years after Immunization in Infancy with Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines

      Delete
  54. Is there a connection: infant vaccinations and mitochondrial injury/disease ?

    http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/mitochondrial-faq.html

    ReplyDelete
  55. i am vaccine-safety proponent, not anti-vaxer. pls, do not be blind - its pathological, as
    vaccine industrialist Mr. Proffit ("10 000 vaccines a day are completely safe for a kid")

    BTW

    you may already know this but just in case.
    40 UK children killed by MMR – and the true picture
    could be 10 times worse

    27 October
    2010Forty children have died after a routine vaccination such as MMR and
    2,100 more have suffered a serious reaction, UK health authorities have been
    forced to disclose this week – and these figures are just the tip of the
    iceberg.

    Two of the vaccinated children have been left with permanent brain damage, and
    1500 others have suffered neurological reactions, including 11 cases of brain
    inflammation and 13 cases of epilepsy and coma. Overall, there have been
    more than 2,100 adverse reactions to a childhood vaccine in the UK in the last
    seven years.

    The UK’s Medicine and Healthcare Products Regulatory Authority (MHRA) was
    forced to reveal the figures following a request from a journalist under
    freedom of information legislation.

    The true picture is likely to be far worse. The MHRA cases are only those
    that doctors have reported; if the doctor does not believe the vaccine has
    caused the reaction, he will not report it. It is suspected that just 10
    per cent of all deaths and reactions from vaccines are ever reported; if so,
    this means that 400 children have died from a vaccine and 21,000 have suffered
    an adverse reaction in the UK alone. The true situation will be far worse
    in countries such as the US where childhood vaccination is compulsory.

    Last month, the UK government was forced by a court to pay damages to a
    mother whose son was left with severe brain damage after an MMR vaccination.
    Another 500 similar cases are currently going through the UK courts.
    These figures represent a major setback in the relationship between doctors and
    parents. Most parents have accepted the reassurances of doctors and
    health authorities that the vaccines are safe, and that they are doing the best
    for their child and the community.
    Now, if things go wrong, they may be less inclined to believe the doctor’s
    denials that the vaccine is to blame.
    (Source: Sunday Times, October 24, 2010).

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I cannot find this article on http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk. Please tell us who wrote that, because I have never seen that claim anywhere.

      Delete
    2. Ah, it turns out it was a hoax:
      http://jaycueaitch.wordpress.com/2010/10/29/yet-another-mmr-scare/

      Delete
    3. yes, it is exxegerated as a hoax, a scare. i agree. thanks for the link.

      http://www.badscience.net/2009/02/legal-chill-from-lbc-973-over-jeni-barnetts-mmr-scaremongering/

      --

      btw i am 100 % pro-vaccine. it is needed. i am concerned with vaccine safety only, so i am not "just the vax".

      Delete
  56. Thank You very much people, for responses on 15th and 16th august.


    Vaccines are necessary, but we need safe vaccines. Do You understand it ?

    Thimerosal was removed (for goodness sake, ethylmercury is neurotoxic), but now we have got a dangerous (exploitative/corporate) trends of unsafe multivalent vaccines with aluminium and the increase in vaccines, at least in U.S. A profit-driven corporate one, callously disregarding the vaccine damage of such a trend.

    Dont be dupes of vaccine industrialists of such a trend, as is dr. Profit.

    We know the infectious disease are dangerous, but unsafe vaccines are too.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. So please tell with real citations that do not include Dr. Chris Shaw what ingredients in the DTaP vaccine are more dangerous than the very real toxins created by the bacteria that cause diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis.

      Delete
    2. i have never claimed anything you imply in that. dont be silly. even the majority of the anti-vaxxers are aware the dangers of infectious diseases. they have simply a very good reason to be sceptical as the 0-2 years old kids are targeted by increased and multivalent UNSAFE vaccine loads.

      my claims are about vaccine safety only, for safery of children 0-2 year of age. this is immunological/metabolical/neurological safety.

      your kid got damaged with a disease, and i am concerned about vaccine safety. you should understand it, it is the same as a kid can get damaged with a disease, kid als kido can get damaged by a vaccine (immunological/metabolical/neurological damage).

      you can think Chris.

      Delete
    3. Why would multivalent vaccines be dangerous? That makes absolutely no sense. Most natural pathogens have many more antigens than 3 or 4. The natural bacteria in your gut has 100,000s and your immune system keeps them in check every single day. The number of antigens from a sandwich that your immune system samples after you eat is massive.

      Delete
  57. Pharmascientist (I doubt that), you are waffling and serving us wild copypasta from the "usual" vaxxaloon sources, garnished with supposedly witty name calling. Do you have anything of substance to say? Otherwise I'd be tempted to close this thread to comments, since it was not meant as a competition to beat the comment in the OP. Cheers.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. infants (0-2 years age) are damaged by unsafe vaccines in U.S.

      so your "just the vax" is silly, as you argument with the infectious disease threat, and disregarding vaccine safety.

      Delete
    2. infants (0-2 years age) are damaged by unsafe vaccines in U.S.

      Then provide the supporting evidence for that claim. That would satisfy Catherina's request that you say something of substance. Cutting and pasting by Ben Goldacre does not qualify.

      Please provide the title, date and journal of the PubMed indexed papers that show children age two and under are being damaged by vaccines. And, please, learn to use your shift key and just attempt actual English grammar and punctuation.

      Delete
  58. Bad science

    This is where it is flawed, so we can get unsafe drugs, and vaccines - with dr. Proffit

    http://www.badscience.net/2009/10/and-now-nerd-news/

    We have known for decades that academic publishing faces two serious problems. One is that trials often go missing in action: a drug company might do eight trials of a drug, say, but only two have a positive result. So those two positive trials will appear in an academic journal, while the six remaining with negative results quietly disappear. Bizarrely, regulatory bodies like the FDA get to see this negative data, but often enough doctors do not.

    This is a familiar problem, and a murderous one, because overall the results of all 8 trials combined might show that the treatment is ineffective: in the absence of this full information, people are subjected unnecessarily to side effects, and deprived of other more effective treatments.

    On top of that, we also know that researchers can mischievously change their stated goal, or “primary outcome”, after their trial has finished. You might do a trial on a blood pressure pill, for example, stating that you will look to see if it can reduce heart attacks, but find at the end that it doesn’t. Then you might retrospectively change the whole purpose of your study, ignore the heart attacks, pretend it was only ever about blood pressure, and glowingly report a reduction in blood pressure as if this was the primary outcome you were always interested in. Or you might measure so many different things that some of them will show up as positive changes simply by chance.

    Both of these problems are supposed to have already been fixed by clinical trials registers: before you start your trial, you publish the protocol, saying exactly what your primary outcome is, how many people are in your trial, when it will finish, and so on. Then people can see if your trial has gone missing in action, and we can see if you have misled us, changing your primary outcome, by looking at the protocol and the finished academic paper side by side.

    This only works if it is enforced. In 2005, the International Committee of Medical Journal Editors announced they would only publish trials that had been registered. Many journals check initial protocols against finished academic papers. So Sylvain Matthieu and colleagues checked up on the system: they gathered together all of the randomised controlled trials from cardiology, rheumatology, and gastroenterology in the 10 biggest general medical and specialty journals from 2008.

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